Job Discussion Forums

[GuyArcher]

Hello,

So, my partner and I have been considering a career field change and the idea of ESL in China came up. I am in the IT field but largely burnt out and no real urge to advance further. I make good money but wake up most mornings dreading it. My pay keeps me here because I can pay my student loan debt and do some very minor savings. I have thought about teaching previously. I teach classes at my current job from time to time and love those days. My partner is largely done with his job/field as well but the money keeps him too. He's been itching to move as have I. We may not like it but that's not a change from the current situation either.

So both of us are considering devoting 3 to 5 years to ESL in China. Our student loan debt back home would run roughly 6k rmb a month. We are both interested in full time jobs/hours and not into the whole party/drinking lifestyle. We would much rather watch a movie or play a game at home.

Both of us have a BA and are working our way through a Tefl certification. It's not the Celta but it's been helpful so far and neither of us wanted to put forth that money just yet.

My hope is that both of us find jobs making roughly 16 to 20k rmb together and can put roughly 6k to bills and 6k to savings while living off the rest. Seems from job ads that it's possible.

I wanted to ask the actual professionals though. Are the goals reasonable for two beginners? All opinions welcome even if I think you are being a jerk.

[happyinshangqiu]

Yeah, sounds like a plan to me, 8000 RMB a month each - it probably won't be a low hour university gig but more than likely a public school gig in a big city of tier 2 and above. If you plan to stay in a lot and cook your own food then you'll save your 6000 RMB.

The only advice I would give is stay away from training centres, they might pay more on the surface but will take their pound of flesh. Hope that helps.

[hdeth]

I make about 13k after taxes (haven't got the first full paycheck at my new job so I say about) with housing provided. My girlfriend and I spend around 3,000-3,500 per month (and could do the same anywhere in China). We don't eat out that often and never go to bars. We don't eat much western food, but we don't buy cheap stuff either...just the way we live. I get something like 14 weeks of vacation.

With 2 people you should easily be able to meet those goals either teaching basically part time (12-16 teaching hours, no office hours) at a high school. If you wanted to make more money, "international" school but might be difficult if you don't have advanced degrees. Maybe you could sell them on your computer skills if they'd like someone to teach computer-related classes...but don't have any idea how common that is. Seems like there should be a demand for classes on IT or programming but TIC.

[GuyArcher]

Okay. Thanks. Looks like my estimates are reasonable then.

I've got a BA in Interdisciplinary Studies with minors in Biology, Psychology, Business and Business Management. If I decide on teaching on a longterm basis, I may start on a Masters in Education while I'm in China. He has a BA in Marketing.

Much appreciated!

[3701 W.119th]

Your plan looks pretty sound. Best of luck to you. It was career burn-out that brought me to teaching last year. Just needed a change. Probably go back to my old life next year or 2017, but still glad I did it.

You can easily save money and pay off debt, especially as a couple. I wouldn't rule out the training centre route. The main drawback is the unsociable hours (evenings / weekends), but this wouldn't be a problem if you and your other half both had the same schedule.

You don't need any training to actually get a job here, but anything you can do beforehand (beyond just printing off a TEFL certificate) will make your experience in the classroom much more enjoyable and rewarding.

[Non Sequitur]

I agree.
My 120 hour part-class, part-online cert didn't count much in terms of getting a job, but it gave me a template to work to and evaluate myself against.
Don't underestimate the value in lifestyle terms of living on campus and you'll probably only get that at a public uni or vocational.
Teaching Affairs will be amenable to aligning both of your schedules as much as possible and getting you the same half days off.

[hdeth]

[Lack]

It would be EFL, not ESL.

It can be a good idea as far as bad ideas go. Or did I get that backwards?

[jimpellow]

I am going to go against the herd and offer that teaching in China is not your best option.

I came from a background similar to yours. I had a pretty cushy Cold Fusion/Database development job but felt like you did despite the hefty paychecks. Then I went into business consulting and was also very well paid, but got tired of sleeping in airports.

So I thought back to my younger Wanderlust days and decided to go the ESL route. I wanted to teach Business English and give Asia a try. Japan and Taiwan were my first two choices, and I received interest, but for positions which started in a few months time. I had packed up my stuff and was back at my parents, and since I didn't want to wait that long I took a position in China which was my third choice.

I made it in China for five years. And am very glad I had the experience. So much so that I still lurk around this board and contemplate coming back.

Then why don't I do it, and why am I trying to dissuade you?

1. I think there is very odd general wage stagnation in China. It makes no sense to me from an economics standpoint (though I have opinions) as the demand continues to grow and more teachers are leaving China than coming IMHO.

I will use myself again as an example. When I took my first job at Web my wage was 8000RMB. That Web pays the same to this day. But while I was there they instituted an income tax in Jiangsu which was about 5%. Since then they have instituted a social tax which is around 11%. You do not get much in return for this. It is supposed to be mostly refunded when you leave China, but reports seem mixed as to if you will actually get it. Inflation averages about 5.6% a year in China. Hence, an 8000RMB job when I started back in 2007 would now need to pay a little over 12000 to maintain the same purchasing power.

2. Pollution! It was bad when I left a few years back, and everybody I know still there says the problem seems to double by the year.

3. The visa process. China has managed to create one of the most convoluted and expensive (at least in relation to the wages offered) work visa processes in the World. All of it implemented and managed by a group of people who seem to have no idea or agreement about what the new requirements are. And you two will be the ones who are required to pay for this both upfront and as the process gets whipped all about. I think with the new requirements it will also be hard for you to procure a good position in a good area without the two years teaching experience now required.

4. Mainland Chinese. I am not perfect, nor are Americans from where I come. But PRC Chinese, despite their good points, will frustrate and attempt to exploit you with a level of consistency pretty much unmatched in the world.

I have to admit that one of the best things about China for me was that both my long term girlfriends were nightclub dancers almost half my age with legs up to my neck. That is in reality one of the big benefits of China for some whether they admit to it or not. But since you are gay, no benefit gained. If you did go, I don't THINK you would want to be openly gay, though probably nothing bad would come of it. At the same time, Chinese have the absolute worse sense of gaydar in the World. You would never be "discovered" save for some gay Chinese men, who would tend to be very forward with you.

Not sure from what you write what your priorities are. It sounds like money would be high up there.

Obviously, despite what I wrote, there are others here who are doing what you intend to do and making it. And you are not a party animal. So depends on the lifestyle to a certain extent. Personally, I burned through app 25k more than I made my first two years in China but I could afford to do it (young nightclub dancer girlfriends are not cheap!). Personally, I still think the margins will be tight on what you want to do. Ran into a fair number of teachers who were saving a lot but were in reality petty thieves who would steal the school toilet paper to reduce their expenses and professional freeloaders who found ways to get students to always take them out, and if none were available, me or other expats with money to pick up the tab.

The Middle East would be the best place for money (though you would need to upgrade your teaching credentials). I did Saudi, and the salaries have skyrocketed so much recently there that I am tempted to go back for a year and work for a friend. ($6000USD and all expenses paid, low cost of living, and absolutely nothing to spend it on save the Western restaurants and donut chains everywhere). Oddly, although homosexuality is a big taboo in the Gulf States, a good percentage of the ESL teachers are gay and nothing is said about it as long as it is kept behind closed doors.

I point out the gay thing as I believe it has to a consideration when you go to live in another country.

In terms of Asia, I think overall Japan, South Korea, and Vietnam offer better opportunities for those who play it smart.

If you and your partner are resourceful you can also look into options like procuring a freelancers work visa for Germany (I am assuming you are North American). Once you have that, you can make good money as an American ESL teacher in Germany and lead a very good life.

I live in Merida, Mexico now. Which is a very tolerant, cultured and safe city in the Yucatan. I live off my web business, but will start teaching for an online Saudi firm soon to keep my career alive. The money is good at $15 and six straight hours a day if I wanted (I will work three) that I could live fairly well on and still save a thousand a month. So the options are countless for those who dig a little.

So if you are really intent on China go for it. But I would really do some serious digging on ESL boards to see what you are getting into. I think a lot of people simply choose China as they see the huge demand (there are reasons for the consistent shortage) and it has that allure. The realities of the society don't hit them until they start getting the pies in the face. Then they come on these boards and cry, and some people jump all over them for not doing due diligence.

Best of luck whatever you do, and I respect your choice to do something different with your life.