Job Discussion Forums

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:24 pm Post subject:

Ah! Didn't know that about the literacy reference. Cheers.

fluffyhamster · Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:52 pm Post subject:

The 'literate zero-beginners, mostly from China' suggests that the Chinese at least will have had no small amount of schooling (they may even be going on adults for all I know), so it isn't totally inconceivable that they'll have had some exposure to English (films and TV if not a few school classes), and be able to recognize at least a few words. Either way, I would be anticipating prioritizing pronunciation practice and going through some common~useful spellings/positions for the phonemes (the unfortunately out-of print COBUILD Guides 8: Spelling would be a good quick resource for stuff like that if the school doesn't have much) if not the IPA symbols themselves.

Yeah maybe omit the age thing, but I wasn't suggesting that they go around actually asking ages (outside of class anyway), just that it might be one thing they could possibly volunteer to include if they were wanting to do lil self-intros from an I'm... stem yet were stumped for things to say. The teacher can at least mention softening phrases like 'Can I ask/Do you mind if I ask how old you are/, how old are you?' if and when age does come up. Personally I've never been too bothered about people asking my age, but living in Asia can maybe "inure" one, especially a greying male hamster, to the question!

santi84 · Joined: 14 Mar 2008 Posts: 1317 Location: under da sea

Wow, and here I was thinking I wasn't going to get a reply! Laughing

Thanks for the help!

Let me clarify a little bit, as there have been some big changes:

- The students are all Ukrainian, not Chinese (I was misinformed by the coordinator). They are all proficient in L1 Ukrainian and L2 Russian. English is their third language.
- One of the students probably doesn't know the alphabet, but the others do, with some practice likely needed.

So, only one is a zero-beginner and the others are false-beginners.

Thanks, I'll go through your comments more thoroughly tonight when I get a chance.

I'm still stuck with Touchstone.

fluffyhamster · Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 2:18 pm Post subject:

Damn, and I was just about to recommend 'I'm a millionaire, or soon will be' as another prime sentence!

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 2:21 pm Post subject:

I'd be very very surprised if any of your students didn't know the alphabet. Everyone here and the UKraine seems to know it. Unless they are pensioners. I've never come across a student who needed an introduction to it. A few letters get mixed up, but that's about it.

Good luck!

santi84 · Joined: 14 Mar 2008 Posts: 1317 Location: under da sea

Our first class is next week (two sessions of 2.5 hours per week). The students are apparently in their late 40's to early 60's, with the exception of one teenager (whose parent is also in the class). Some are recent immigrants and some are visitors, maxing out their tourist visa.

I don't know anything else. I didn't assess them and I'm not getting any more information about them until I meet them. Surprised

I have never taught Ukrainians before. Are there any cultural issues that I should be aware of?

fluffyhamster · Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 2:26 pm Post subject:

How are Ukranians when it comes to (asking about) age and income, Sash? Similar sentiments to Anglo countries? Wouldn't want to offend anybody! Very Happy

(Edit: Ah, Santi has asked a similar question).

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 2:38 pm Post subject:

Well, stay well aware from the disturbances in the east. Be very careful with the question, 'where are you from?' (This is often confused with 'where do you live?', but with the situation there at the moment, best glossed over totally.)

You co-ordinator has let you down already, so do not assume they are actually Ukrainian speakers first. They could be Russian.

That older age group will expect the teacher to be in charge, and in control. Just like they are at home. Go easy on the learner-autonomy for the first few lessons at least, until you train them how to be do things in the student-centred classroom.

Can't think of any obvious cultural matters that would impact on the lessons. Just that they usually don't like changing seats or doing mill-drills. Takes a bit of pressure to move them about, though they can get into it eventually.

Ukrainians and Russians tend to be quite, quite direct. Comes across as abrasive or rude. Most of this is differences in language, though some of it isn't. Their ideas on race, gender, politics can be very much at variance with PCness in other countries. So, again, best to steer clear, even if they themselves are eager to talk about such matters. Several of my younger, more sensitive colleagues found this trait quite disconcerting. Gentle souls...

They'll probably be a lovely bunch to teach. I predict they'll be a group that will have a lot of laughs. Probably wicked sense of humour, though : )

santi84 · Joined: 14 Mar 2008 Posts: 1317 Location: under da sea

Thanks, that is very useful information.

Yeah, I'm not actually sure if they are L1 Ukrainian or Russian. I've been told Ukrainian, but some comments make me think that at least one is actually L1 Russian. I don't know. I suppose I'll have to phrase that: "What language do you think in?"

Good thing I hate politics anyways Laughing

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 2:47 pm Post subject:

It won't make any real difference to the lessons. Very similar language, very similar culture in many respects. They wouldn't agree, but from an English teachers point of view, it is all the one. Just need to avoid treading on cultural corns is all.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:48 pm Post subject:

Ah! Just had a flash! Names. Slavic names are a little perplexing at first, but it could be important to your students that you get it right, especially as they are older.

Basically everyone has a patronymic, their father's first name. So I'm Aleksandr Vladimirovich, coz my father's first name is Vladimir. These patronymics are always used when showing respect, during formal introductions etc. they probably won't expect you to use the full titles, especially if they've been in Canada for a while. A lot of leeway is given to teachers in this regard anyway, but you might have a stern member of the old guard. The other students might refer to each other in various ways too.

The other peculiarity is that first names have multiple diminutives. For example, my name Aleksandr is shortened to Sasha, Sash, Shura, even Alex these days.

The names can fly around the classroom as confusingly as in a Russian novel. So, best to check with them how they want you to address them. Usually I just follow whatever name they use to introduce themselves in the first lesson.

All part of the joy : )

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

I work with many Ukrainians and Russians. We don't institutionalize the introductions about where they are from (obviously they will ask each other, but we avoid this part of introductions as a part of our class).

They are unlikely to enjoy EFL-y games or exercises, but will probably be quite happy to do tasks which are obviously relevant to their goals. I usually give them a mix of pair/small group and individual stuff, so that the loners in a group have opportunities to work alone but also need to collaborate/contribute to others sometimes.

I'd avoid games, music, and elaborate or 'funny' role-plays. Avoid competitive activities - co-operation is usually more productive in such a context.

Do let us know how it all goes, and maybe we can be of help through the process if specific situations come up.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

santi84 · Joined: 14 Mar 2008 Posts: 1317 Location: under da sea

So, they were a group of intermediate L1 Spanish. Obviously, my prepared lesson was useless and it all had to be done on the fly. Is this common?