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Lack of legal protection for foreigners in japan
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PAULH



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:28 am    Post subject: Lack of legal protection for foreigners in japan Reply with quote

I dont know if you guys missed this in the Japan times the other day, but the Japanese government has just passed a law saying that in the event of a natural disaster like an earthquake or an act of terrorism, the government has said it will protect Japanese "kokumin" which means japanese nationals. What the law pointedly excludes is non-Japanese citizens and foreigners living in Japan, and that police etc can legally discriminate against non-Japanese in the event of a disaster.

This has happened before after 1000's of Koreans were massacred after the 1923 kanto earthquake. Koreans were blamed for causing the fires that killed 100s of thousands of people. Shintaro Ishihara has been making noises about foreigners (Chinese, mainly) being the cause of the increase in crime, even though they make up less than 1% of the arrests made here.

Doesnt it worry you that you could become a scapegoat during an emergency and have no legal protection as a foreign resident here?
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migo



Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes that is a concern. It seems to be the case in most countries, although I get the impression that Korea offers the best protection for foreigners.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the article in question.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?fl20040720zg.htm

So, Paul, since you brought this up, do you have any suggestions? I would imagine the worst case (if this really comes to a head) would be for single foreigners, followed by married ones on spouse visas, then those on permanent resident visas, and lastly by those who may have been naturalized. But who knows about Governor Ishihara?
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PAULH



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenski wrote:
Here is the article in question.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?fl20040720zg.htm

So, Paul, since you brought this up, do you have any suggestions? I would imagine the worst case (if this really comes to a head) would be for single foreigners, followed by married ones on spouse visas, then those on permanent resident visas, and lastly by those who may have been naturalized. But who knows about Governor Ishihara?


Glenski

I could become nationalised, have a Japanese passport and still be treated the same. Debito Arudo is a classic example. Konishiki and Akebono are others. You can change the passports and pieces of paper but you can not change peoples attitudes. My kids are born in Japan but because they have a foreign parent they are considered 'half' or not real Japanese. Criminals like Alberto Fujimori can get refuge in Japan because of his ancestry though he hasnt lived here since he was an infant. japanese Brazilians can get long term visas here becuase of Japanese blood. I spend twenty years here, pay taxes, learn japanese, marry a japanese and Im still a 'gaijin' foreigner.

Akebono quit sumo because he couldnt come up with 100 million yen to buy the rights to his own sumo stable, whereas Takanohana could. Konishiki called sumo kyokai racist for not promoting him even though he had japanese nationality. he got blacklisted as a result and went into the talent industry where he now has a million dollar house on the beach in Hawaii.

As for me, if an earthquake comes and I try and get food and shelter I can just bend over and kiss my civil rights and protection for my Japanese family goodbye. Japan is a socialist and a police state that doesnt give rats a----e about the foreigners living here. Thats why they only give me one year contracts at my university, though i have 14 years teaching experience.
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migo



Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pity it's like that. Well I guess my policy will be get in, get money, get out.
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PAULH



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

migo wrote:
Pity it's like that. Well I guess my policy will be get in, get money, get out.


Migo, for what its worth, Im a long term resident here and except for my car and furnishings, and some bank savings (2 months income worth) , all my pension, cash investments and real estate are outside Japan. If you invest your money here or put it into real estate, shares in Japan you are a fool.

Bank interest here is less than 0.5% which is lower than the rate of inflation. You lose money by leaving it in the bank.
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Brooks



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1369
Location: Sagamihara

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well I guess that`s another good reason for me to move to Kansai, since Hyogo is foreigner friendly and more enlightened politically.
Don`t know when I`ll come, maybe within the next two years.
My girlfriend doesn`t care for Tokyo, that`s for sure.
It `s a real rat race. I have to teach tomorrow and may have another week of work.
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denise



Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3419
Location: finally home-ish

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Migo--

I agree. Although I am enjoying myself now, I know that I could never stay here for more than just a couple of years, because I know how I would be treated and (not) welcomed as a long-term resident.

d
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migo



Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PAULH wrote:

Migo, for what its worth, Im a long term resident here and except for my car and furnishings, and some bank savings (2 months income worth) , all my pension, cash investments and real estate are outside Japan. If you invest your money here or put it into real estate, shares in Japan you are a fool.

Bank interest here is less than 0.5% which is lower than the rate of inflation. You lose money by leaving it in the bank.


Thanks for the advice. I would have dealt with Swiss or Dutch banks anyway, but that just solidified my plan of action.

denise wrote:

Migo--

I agree. Although I am enjoying myself now, I know that I could never stay here for more than just a couple of years, because I know how I would be treated and (not) welcomed as a long-term resident.


It's kind of funny, but the more I hear about Japan, the more it seems to be a lot like Switzerland. The Swiss are very friendly to foreigners if they are just visiting and are guaranteed to leave fairly quickly (anything within a few years), but if they look to be staying for an indefinite and long period of time the Swiss become very cold and anti-social while still maintaining their manners. I get the exact same impression from Japan from everyone I've heard talk about it (who hasn't been trying to impress a Japanese girl at the same time Rolling Eyes ).
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PAULH



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

migo wrote:
[
It's kind of funny, but the more I hear about Japan, the more it seems to be a lot like Switzerland. The Swiss are very friendly to foreigners if they are just visiting and are guaranteed to leave fairly quickly (anything within a few years), but if they look to be staying for an indefinite and long period of time the Swiss become very cold and anti-social while still maintaining their manners. I get the exact same impression from Japan from everyone I've heard talk about it (who hasn't been trying to impress a Japanese girl at the same time Rolling Eyes ).



Migo

the law of inverse respect is in effect here.

they love you if you know nothing about japan dont speak the language and dont know anything about the culture or how they think

get a permanent resident visa, marry their women, start becoming proficient in the language and the drawbridge goes up.

the better your Japanese becomes, the less they like and respect you for it. They will forgive you if you speak bad Japanese as a novice (Nihongo jouzo desu ne) but they can be quite unforgiving if you make mistakes as an intermediate or advanced speaker (why cant you speak Japanese better?). Its also hard to find people willing to speak to you in Japanese too or amke close Japanese friends. The other thread with Love Child shows that Japanese feel threatened, even xenophobic, about foreigners who know more than Japanese people want them to about Japan. They don't like foreigners who can speak and argue with them in their own language, or point out all Japan's bad points. I think I outstayed my welcome years ago.
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migo



Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That actually makes a lot of sense. I guess I'll have to be content with just understanding Japanese well and not worry about being able to speak it. It's rather unfortunate as I like learning new languages.
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PAULH



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

migo wrote:
That actually makes a lot of sense. I guess I'll have to be content with just understanding Japanese well and not worry about being able to speak it. It's rather unfortunate as I like learning new languages.


Migo

you know what is real fun?

Listening to Japanese talk about you, your wife in Japanese, make racist comments about foreigners etc while they assume you can not understand anything they are saying yet you understand pretty much everything. Then after 20 minutes tell them in your most impeccable fluent polite Japanese that they are ignorant, narrow minded xenophobic racist a---holes that have just insulted your Japanese wife and children, and you dont think much of their crowded noisy polluted country anyway.

I heard this happened to some western guy who overheard his own neighbors disparaging his wife and family in Japanese right in front of him for about 20 minutes after which he politely told them in his best Japanese to get f_____ed. The worst is in restaurants when people will talk about you to your face and assume you can not understand them.
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monkey_z



Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 26
Location: Aichi

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess you can say you know how a black person feels in America.
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migo



Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Except everyone knows black people can speak english just as well as white people.

PAULH:

You've converted me. That does sound like fun, especially since pronunciation is relatively easy for me I'm not likely to screw up something I'm likely to have a lot of practice with.
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monkey_z



Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 26
Location: Aichi

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah ! They just simple say it to their faces.
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