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TravelKitty
Joined: 02 Nov 2012
Posts: 3
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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 Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| Can anyone rationally refute the conclusion of this article? |
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esl_prof
Joined: 30 Nov 2013
Posts: 2006
Location: peyi kote solèy frèt
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:45 am Post subject: Re: Interesting article on who gets called "expat" |
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| TravelKitty wrote: |
| I found it interesting so I thought I would share. Just something to think about. |
Interesting, indeed! I never really thought about this before but, then again, part of white privilege is not having to think about things like this. |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:39 am Post subject: Re: Interesting article on who gets called "expat" |
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| esl_prof wrote: |
| ... but, then again, part of white privilege is not having to think about things like this. |
That is the takeaway for me as well and wish to express my gratitude for both the post and esl_prof's articulation of it. Observations such as these are empowered through courses and topics nurtured in the Humanities and too rare among the sensationalized dissension wrought by politically driven economics.
tldr: +1 |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:41 am Post subject: |
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I don't know, immigrant implies a move to citizenship. Expat means you want to keep your nationality, passport, etc, but work in another place. Either way, it is more a mental situation than a linguistic one. If you go on this road you are talking and advocating using linguistics to alter people's minds in favor of your opinion. I am not a fan of this, words express thought, not the other way around.
White guilt is funny. Born white so must be guilty or privileged. Still wondering what you did and where all the privilege is? Being any race carries something it seems, but being white only carries guilt. I feel sad for those who buy into this, and my half white child will definitely not be taught to feel guilty of himself.
What does white even mean? My skin tends to be pink or purple. What did the pink/purple people do in the past to make me like I am?
Edit to mention it is not a word I have ever used, so maybe some people are using it this way. I have never referred to myself as an expat. |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| wangdaning wrote: |
| I don't know, immigrant implies a move to citizenship. |
And the term "immigrant labor"?
Status is a topic long in its study, while "white guilt" is a catch-phrase given currency by editorial and article-- polemic. "White guilt" is a supposition laden with assumptions about individuals and their motivation, life experience, and education. In your post, it provides a basis to "feel" sad for conclusions other than your own. It would be inaccurate to claim The Guardian is without agenda, but the scope of the article is specific and narrow, while your response extrapolates largely by implication.
While I strive to respect and accept a view contrary to the OP (and actively invited such a view), the rationality of the response is a complete dismissal of the article's simple observation. First, in terms of linguistic theory and presenting what I believe to be a false choice, and secondly, through two frames of explanation that plead you could not be guilty of either racism or privilege. The last frame is the most interesting: You've never applied to the term to yourself.
So, for you, the terms ex pat and immigrant are distinguished by a practicality and do not reflect status or privilege.
okay |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| buravirgil wrote: |
| wangdaning wrote: |
| I don't know, immigrant implies a move to citizenship. |
And the term "immigrant labor"?
Status is a topic long in its study, while "white guilt" is a catch-phrase given currency by editorial and article-- polemic. "White guilt" is a supposition laden with assumptions about individuals and their motivation, life experience, and education. In your post, it provides a basis to "feel" sad for conclusions other than your own. It would be inaccurate to claim The Guardian is without agenda, but the scope of the article is specific and narrow, while your response extrapolates largely by implication.
While I strive to respect and accept a view contrary to the OP (and actively invited such a view), the rationality of the response is a complete dismissal of the article's simple observation. First, in terms of linguistic theory and presenting what I believe to be a false choice, and secondly, through two frames of explanation that plead you could not be guilty of either racism or privilege. The last frame is the most interesting: You've never applied to the term to yourself.
So, for you, the terms ex pat and immigrant are distinguished by a practicality and do not reflect status or privilege.
okay |
You pretty much nailed it (I took the ideas from the article and made them more broad). I only responded based on my own experience, I am not, nor will I be, claiming to be an expert. Thank you for keeping it respectful, it is nice to see.
For the last part, I am wondering if the term is more common among British. I would not use it and others from back home would not either. I might use it occasionally in writing, but never in speaking. Immigrant labor is also something I would not say, illegal labor, maybe. I still think immigrant implies wanting citizenship, or at least permanent residence. No one would really say I immigrated to x country for a year. Again though, this might be differences in the political terminology used. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| Someone posted the link over on the British Expat Forum. It induced apoplexy and hysteria amongst the many there who cannot accept that a white guy working in Dubai is a migrant worker ! |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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Not so sure that race is the difference between the two terms. Scottish, Irish, Swedish people who moved to the US to live and work would have been called immigrants every bit as much as anybody else.
I think the level of skill is usually the main difference. A regional manager temporarily residing in some part of the world or other, heading up the local operation of a multinational, usually has far more skills than 'migrant workers'. (True, the article does say that the same doesn't seem to apply for highly-qualified Africans in the EU.)
Rules out the use for the term for most of the TEFL community in Dubai and elsewhere : ) |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Anyway, it reveals something of our mental make-up when we live in another country but comment on how 'foreign' everything is, without realising that it is we who are foreign there, and everything else is quite local... |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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If you want to see an illustration of just how much labeling can matter. look no further than the southwest US:
Two labels for the same group of people:
Tea Party: "illegal aliens"
Progressives: "undocumented immigrants"
Regards,
John |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| I wonder what the Navajo make of this. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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water rat
Joined: 30 Aug 2014
Posts: 1098
Location: North Antarctica
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esl_prof
Joined: 30 Nov 2013
Posts: 2006
Location: peyi kote solèy frèt
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| Not so sure that race is the difference between the two terms . . . I think the level of skill is usually the main difference. |
Race and class issues often intersect. Level of skill (and education) would certainly suggest that the latter is part of the equation. |
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