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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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 Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| En929 wrote: |
| In my Master's degree program (not the TEFL certification program that I mentioned), it had various online courses and when I finished the courses, none of them indicated whether I took them online or not; neither on my transcript, DARS report or otherwise. It just said "Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages" or whatever the course that I took was. |
Sure, but regardless of what your transcript may state or what's printed on your diploma or a certificate, the government reps who review your academic qualifications for authenticity also obtain verification directly from your university's registrar to confirm if any of your courses were taken online. |
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En929
Joined: 22 Feb 2015
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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Sure, but regardless of what your transcript may state or what's printed on your diploma or a certificate, the government reps who review your academic qualifications for authenticity also obtain verification directly from your university's registrar to confirm if any of your courses were taken online. |
They can do that all they want! Even the university won’t be able to truly say whether I took the course online or not! Having an online component is simply a teaching method that SOME professor chooses and more and more are doing so (Saudi Arabia is just going to have to get with the times). But, different professors have different methods! Some might have online components and some might not and professors at my school are usually in and out. One day they might be working for the school and the next day they’re gone and don’t work there anymore! So, there’s no real way of knowing (since I also took the course some time ago too). They’re most likely just going to get a secretary that don’t know me and don’t know one way or the other and if they ask too many questions, they’re probably going to get an earful LOL. The university is not going to dig too deep and reveal how I took the course for them. Plus, there could be privacy issues with that which are against the law here in America. And that stuff gets complicated. Nah, the answer they’re likely to get is “whatever is on that transcript is what he took.” So, I’m not worried about that! |
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rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| En929 wrote: |
| They can do that all they want! Even the university won’t be able to truly say whether I took the course online or not! Having an online component is simply a teaching method that SOME professor chooses and more and more are doing so (Saudi Arabia is just going to have to get with the times). But, different professors have different methods! Some might have online components and some might not and professors at my school are usually in and out. One day they might be working for the school and the next day they’re gone and don’t work there anymore! So, there’s no real way of knowing (since I also took the course some time ago too). They’re most likely just going to get a secretary that don’t know me and don’t know one way or the other and if they ask too many questions, they’re probably going to get an earful LOL. The university is not going to dig too deep and reveal how I took the course for them. Plus, there could be privacy issues with that which are against the law here in America. And that stuff gets complicated. Nah, the answer they’re likely to get is “whatever is on that transcript is what he took.” So, I’m not worried about that! |
Conducting a course completely online is not usually just a matter of a professor's choice of how to conduct a course. It's an official designation in the university's system, separate from what is indicated on your transcript or diploma.
For your university to verify the modality of the course, the person completing the form does not need to know you, and does not need to contact the professor. It's indicated in the university's records. They don't need to dig deep to find it.
The question about educational privacy is moot, as all FERPA and other laws say is that the university cannot disclose private educational records (which might or might not include course modality) without your permission. If you do not give the Saudi gov. permission to get such information from your university, then they will simply not process your visa application, and you won't be able to take the job.
Your university will need to fill out the form if you want to get the job. The university will not fill out a form falsely, because they need to protect themselves. If they refuse to fill out the form, you won't get a visa. It's that simple. |
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En929
Joined: 22 Feb 2015
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Conducting a course completely online is not usually just a matter of a professor's choice of how to conduct a course. It's an official designation in the university's system, separate from what is indicated on your transcript or diploma.
For your university to verify the modality of the course, the person completing the form does not need to know you, and does not need to contact the professor. It's indicated in the university's records. They don't need to dig deep to find it.
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Well, not at my university! My university doesn't disclose or say whether I took the course online or not or what was done online and what wasn't. It's nowhere in my records; not even on the DARS report that gets as technical as it gets regarding courses and it too doesn't say whether I took my course online or not. So, this is not an issue for me. So, I'm not worried about it. |
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rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| En929 wrote: |
| It's nowhere in my records; not even on the DARS report that gets as technical as it gets regarding courses and it too doesn't say whether I took my course online or not. So, this is not an issue for me. So, I'm not worried about it. |
A DARS report is for is telling which courses were taken and which degree requirements have been met. It does not include all information about the courses. For example, it doesn't typically indicate the total number of students enrolled in the course, but the university does have that information in its records. Likewise, the university should have records of which courses were taught online.
If you do go through the process of obtaining a position in Saudi Arabia, your university will be asked to make a differentiation between courses taught online and those taught face-to-face. If, as you indicate, they refuse to say whether the courses were taken online or not, it's likely that your visa will not be granted.
You can keep arguing about this if you want, but it is something to be aware of if you want to use a degree that included online coursework as your qualifying degree in a place that does not recognize degrees that included online coursework.
No one here is saying that degrees are less valid if they included online coursework. They are telling you about practices in some countries that you should be aware of, whether you agree with them or not. Of course, this does not apply to most places in the world. |
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MuscatGary
Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 1364
Location: Flying around the ME...
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| En929 wrote: |
| [Well, not at my university! My university doesn't disclose or say whether I took the course online or not or what was done online and what wasn't. It's nowhere in my records; not even on the DARS report that gets as technical as it gets regarding courses and it too doesn't say whether I took my course online or not. So, this is not an issue for me. So, I'm not worried about it. |
I'm sometimes a recruiter for the higher level jobs in the ME. I look at the employment dates and the study dates for the claimed qualifications. If somebody was working in a country during the dates of study other than where the award is from then alarm bells ring and checks are made. Anyway it only applies to a few countries but they tend to be the better paying ones. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Plus, this requirement also applies to Saudis, Qataris, and Kuwaitis studying in the US, UK... In fact, your university registrar is probably familiar with these requests. |
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En929
Joined: 22 Feb 2015
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| rtm wrote: |
| En929 wrote: |
| It's nowhere in my records; not even on the DARS report that gets as technical as it gets regarding courses and it too doesn't say whether I took my course online or not. So, this is not an issue for me. So, I'm not worried about it. |
A DARS report is for is telling which courses were taken and which degree requirements have been met. It does not include all information about the courses. For example, it doesn't typically indicate the total number of students enrolled in the course, but the university does have that information in its records. Likewise, the university should have records of which courses were taught online.
If you do go through the process of obtaining a position in Saudi Arabia, your university will be asked to make a differentiation between courses taught online and those taught face-to-face. If, as you indicate, they refuse to say whether the courses were taken online or not, it's likely that your visa will not be granted.
You can keep arguing about this if you want, but it is something to be aware of if you want to use a degree that included online coursework as your qualifying degree in a place that does not recognize degrees that included online coursework.
No one here is saying that degrees are less valid if they included online coursework. They are telling you about practices in some countries that you should be aware of, whether you agree with them or not. Of course, this does not apply to most places in the world. |
I see and know what you're saying. My only point was I SERIOUSLY SERIOUSLY and SERIOUSLY doubt that they'll be able to figure out whether I took the course online or not. I took the course long ago, I took it in my home country, and that's just something that would be SUPER hard to find out unless I told them (and I won't )! And now as I recall before I took the course, my advisors told me that there'd be no way of employers knowing that I took the course online, because such was a concern that I had back then for getting jobs even here in my home country (since back then, online courses was a new idea). No, I'm not worried at all! And if Saudi Arabian officials would want to be THAT anal about letting people in simply based on course work, then forget them! I wouldn't want to work there anyway! I'd just take my talents elsewhere! Anyway, I'm off this subject. |
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onomatopoeia
Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| MuscatGary wrote: |
| En929 wrote: |
| [Well, not at my university! My university doesn't disclose or say whether I took the course online or not or what was done online and what wasn't. It's nowhere in my records; not even on the DARS report that gets as technical as it gets regarding courses and it too doesn't say whether I took my course online or not. So, this is not an issue for me. So, I'm not worried about it. |
I'm sometimes a recruiter for the higher level jobs in the ME. I look at the employment dates and the study dates for the claimed qualifications. If somebody was working in a country during the dates of study other than where the award is from then alarm bells ring and checks are made. Anyway it only applies to a few countries but they tend to be the better paying ones. |
I'm trying to make a list countries that are known to be picky about online coursework, even if only sometimes. So far I've got Kuwait, Qatar and Saudi Arabia. See I'm trying to determine if I should go ahead and earn the remainder of my M.Ed. online while teaching in Taiwan, or stay near my university in this wasteland that is Maine, USA so as to make it look like I took my courses in classrooms. Staying here would be a huge sacrifice, but I don't want my options limited when it comes time to find an international school. Any help would be appreciated. Again, only 20% of my degree would be online, so if you know other places where that might limit my choices let me know. |
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En929
Joined: 22 Feb 2015
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:38 am Post subject: |
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I'm trying to make a list countries that are known to be picky about online coursework, even if only sometimes. So far I've got Kuwait, Qatar and Saudi Arabia. See I'm trying to determine if I should go ahead and earn the remainder of my M.Ed. online while teaching in Taiwan, or stay near my university in this wasteland that is Maine, USA so as to make it look like I took my courses in classrooms. Staying here would be a huge sacrifice, but I don't want my options limited when it comes time to find an international school. Any help would be appreciated. Again, only 20% of my degree would be online, so if you know other places where that might limit my choices let me know. |
Great question. Yes, you and me both! I TOO would like to know which countries are picky so that I myself could avoid them! Share the list!
BTW, go ahead and finish your Master's degree since you already started it. If the rest of your coursework is online and the professor/university absolutely won't have any in-class course work whatsoever (i.e. check with your university or the instructors teaching those course if you haven't already - also check to see if your university would even state if your class was taken online or not. Mine don't)! And then if not, yes DEFINITELY go ahead and teach in Taiwan WHILE earning the remainder of your degree. There'd be no reason not to! With English teaching jobs, they don't usually give a lot of working hours; so thus, there'd be plenty of time to study as well as prepare your classes when they come!
I PERFECTLY understand what you mean when you said being in Maine and United States is a sacrifice while you'd rather be overseas enjoying yourself and following your dream, etc. Thus, DO IT! Follow your dream! I will be needing to get out of this dump called "Missouri!" So, I'm soon to do the same. And I planned to not look back! |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| onomatopoeia wrote: |
| I'm trying to make a list countries that are known to be picky about online coursework, even if only sometimes. So far I've got Kuwait, Qatar and Saudi Arabia. See I'm trying to determine if I should go ahead and earn the remainder of my M.Ed. online while teaching in Taiwan, or stay near my university in this wasteland that is Maine, USA so as to make it look like I took my courses in classrooms. Staying here would be a huge sacrifice, but I don't want my options limited when it comes time to find an international school. Any help would be appreciated. |
Frankly, you're better off checking out the visa application instructions in your target countries to see how academic degrees are evaluated/authenticated, if at all. Moreover, if you're looking to teach in international schools abroad, be aware that the better employers expect licensed teachers to have relevant teaching experience from their home countries. In other words, if your license is from the US, you should also have X number of years of experience teaching your subject area in the US school system. You're concerned about limiting your options, so that's something to consider if you have no intention of teaching in the US once you've obtained your license.
In addition to looking at actual job ads in your target countries to see what employers require, think about joining International Schools Review to post on their forums for feedback from seasoned overseas international and public school teachers. |
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En929
Joined: 22 Feb 2015
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:39 am Post subject: |
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Frankly, you're better off checking out the visa application instructions in your target countries to see how academic degrees are evaluated/authenticated, if at all. Moreover, if you're looking to teach in international schools abroad, be aware that the better employers expect licensed teachers to have relevant teaching experience from their home countries. In other words, if your license is from the US, you should also have X number of years of experience teaching your subject area in the US school system. You're concerned about limiting your options, so that's something to consider if you have no intention of teaching in the US once you've obtained your license.
In addition to looking at actual job ads in your target countries to see what employers require, think about joining International Schools Review to post on their forums for feedback from seasoned overseas international and public school teachers. |
This is great advice. I've been doing this for the last couple of days. I learned that Teach Away also places certified teachers in international schools. So thus, I'm definitely looking into what I could get with that. Ditto! |
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