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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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 Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| The rules in their entirety are known only to God ! |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Did God tell you that? Because if he did, I BELIEVE you! |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, I was talking to God the other day, and She admitted that even She doesn't know ALL of them. 
Regards,
John |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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On a side note, from many of the posts floating around on here, there really ain't much proper English being taught in some of the world anyway  |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Where dat be? |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Not in the Worker's Paradise, obviously. They've got you to keep them straight:-) |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Now, Spiral, we have more than one worker in our paradise, tsk tsk! |
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water rat
Joined: 30 Aug 2014
Posts: 1098
Location: North Antarctica
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
Dear water rat,
Well, it's good to be king, a ruler, that is. What I've found over the years, though, is that my attitude towards some of the "rules" has changed considerably.
Back in my shallow youth, I was, admittedly, more of a prescriptionist,, something of a semi-pedant (which may be like saying a "semi-virgin")
Well, just shoot me - rules are the fallback position for insecurity, I think, and I don't suppose too many of us were totally secure when we started.
But these days, now that I'm in my shallow old age, I'm (relatively speaking) much more relaxed. Oh, I still teach the "less/fewer, count/non-count" stuff, but I left a lot of the silly junk behind years ago. And the reason I teach that "less/fewer" stuff is that I think using the "right" word in some cases can still make a difference in the "real world" of job interviews and the like.
So, I'll do a "full disclosure" and reveal that while I do agree with some of what Kamm wrote (hey, I very rarely agree with ANYTHING the "Wall Street Journal publishes), I think he goes too far.
Did you read any of the "Comments" to the article? I did, and here are a few I (more or less) agree with:
"He confuses his point right in the article itself with "... whereas the real task of language instruction ... should be to help people learn how to address different types of audience at different sorts of occasions. If you mix them up, you have failed ... in standards of language..."
In other words, he suggests that there is indeed a "proper" English and as one commentator already pointed out, if you use "improper" English, you will not get the job or into the school you want to get into, never mind elected to public office. Standard English actually is "correct" in the sense that it is the correct one to use in most important environments and learning it is one of the main keys to success."
"First of all, Oliver Kamm should draw a clear line between written and spoken language. Language is what we speak; writing is a way to record it with letters or symbols. He seems to blend the two forms.
Also, when a prospective student or job applicant writes a cover letter to express what they are asking for, it's essential that it be clear to the admissions director or boss who does the hiring."
"Sure, it's perfectly acceptable to write non-standard English. Just make sure that it is clear to the person you are addressing, and that he is like-minded. Otherwise, you don't get into the school or you don't get the job."
Yes, everyone has the "right" to their own grammar and syntax. just as everyone has the right to not get the job or get into the university because of the impression their individual grammar/syntax made on the people who decide who gets hired/admitted.
Regards,
John |
Yowza. Dave's View posts since last visit isn't at all reliable. I click it five to ten times a day everyday, and I never saw this, John. Perhaps I can respond once I've read and absorbed your comments.  |
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