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Making it Work while Teaching on a University Salary
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Son of Bud Powell



Joined: 04 Mar 2015
Posts: 179
Location: Since 2003

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have seen public uni FTs who do nothing but play games and movies in class. Most of the time they're reprimanded, but because they have no teaching skills and/or are unmotivated or just plain stupid, they fall back into the same ol' schtick.

I know one teacher who got away with it fairly consistently because the class monitor wasn't reporting the continual movies and games. The monitor was as much an idler as the teacher. Eventually, though, a student complains.

This is one big problem that serious FTs in public universities face. If their predecessors have goofed off, or if their colleagues (with whom the serious teacher may share students) are slackers, it's a big problem, even when teaching English majors. The ONLY thing that can bring the students around is for the serious FT to make class interesting and challenging. That can be a very big challenge even for the most experienced FT.

If the students' work leader has developed a dislike for western teachers, there's almost no hope of motivating the entire class. There will be students who actually value the motivated FT and will study and jump through hoops of fire to show the teacher that they're not like the slacker students. That happened to me at one school. The monitor was a goof-off who didn't come to class after mid-semester, so the other goof-offs quit coming too. It was heavenly until the FL dean came to my class the last week of classes and found only a dozen students in the room.

On the other hand, I've seen FTs not renewed and others' contracts canceled after one semester, so there's hope out there. There are public universities that expect the FT to perform.

This a bit off-topic, but I have developed a greater appreciation for teachers in language schools. They must have some sort of certification, and they must produce. In some public universities and two-year colleges, the foreign languages departments have given up on their FTs because some of them are little more than tourists. (I was told this verbatim by a dean of FL one time).

Re: the people. I work only in 2nd tier cities of approximately 2 million people. My experiences with the locals range from very good overall to just so so overall. I've been treated like royalty at restaurants, and I've been ignored by waiters (even when I was accompanied by Chinese), and my dinner checks have been doubled. In time, I learned who was friendly to me and who wasn't. This is the sort of thing that every FT who moves from one city to another must learn.

Re: Money. In the cities where I have worked, 6000rmb is good enough for me to eat well at home and go out when I want to go out AND save money. I go out at most twice per week. Generally, there's not a whole lot to do in tier 2 cities that I've lived in. I'm not a club-goer, so there's not much weekend night life for me unless I go out to dinner with a group. The few times that I have gone to a club (where only locals go), I've lost part of my hearing for a week, and I felt as though I was constantly watched by someone in club security (if there's really such a thing in those places).

Unless one marries a local who has a steady job (and one has a steady stream of private students), the public university route is not the way to go for the long run.
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good observations SoB.
Even at tier 1 schools there are goof off FTs.
In 2004 I taught alongside FTs who filled their classes with Scrabble and bridge.
A student confided in me that in the semester before I arrived an FT would run out of ideas after the break and take off one of his socks and use it as a glove puppet.
The bridge lady had conned the admin that bridge taught strategic thinking and they allowed her to go ahead.
The other point is that some don't have the credentials to do other than the public unis and vocationals.
If you really need extra over and above the 5500-6000 pm do language school on Saturdays.
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Son of Bud Powell



Joined: 04 Mar 2015
Posts: 179
Location: Since 2003

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

finlandpenguin wrote:
"The school may tell you that it's just a short bike ride to the other campus and even provide you with a bike. Been there. Done that. A mile in freezing rain is a drag by bike, and standing in crummy winter weather waiting for a bus that may or may not arrive is not much better."

Good god how have you ever managed to live this long? How does such a person even find employment? ESL teachers - biggest whining crybabies I've ever met on planet Earth.


Wait. An FT comes onto an ESL board to whine about a whining FT. That's rich.

What you have quoted, Einstein, is a statement of fact, not a complaint.

And here's a li'l reminder for ya! Wink

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=109531
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Emp1



Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Non Sequitur wrote:
Emp1 wrote:
The key is to do little to nothing at university and stock up on language centre work in evenings and kindergarten/high school work in mornings/afternoons where possible.

Honestly for the university job I just put on movies, don't do any lesson planning or marking at all since that's time I could be using to earn more money elsewhere. Yeah I might get slated by some who think ESL teachers should be 'professional'...as though this were just like a real career back home providing stuff like pension plans, employee rights and increased salary for years of experience. As it's not however, I'll just do whatever I can to earn the most money now - myself and my family come way before any employer or their students.


This is the saddest post I've read on Dave's Rolling Eyes


Anyone who would actually put their students and some vague idea of 'professionalism' above the needs of themselves and their family needs a reality check. If this were a job like back home, that actually gave employee rights and career development (development in terms of increased pay as you gain experience, like every other career on planet Earth) then I'd try more. But if you put in more effort at university, that's less time you're using to earn money elsewhere, since planning lessons takes up time, and actually doing stuff in class starts to drain you mentally...whereas you can conserve your energy by watching movies instead, which means you're not knackered for the real money-making jobs that pay a good hourly rate.

If that gets me derided by a bunch of public uni teachers who've deluded themselves into thinking this is a professional job, then so be it. I'll happily compare monthly amounts earned in total with any of you, and that is the only reason to go to work after all.

Some people in the ESL game need a wakeup call. Do you want to get to age 60, then be booted out of China because you're too old for a visa, and have no savings to fall back on? No, you need to get saving for that eventuality RIGHT NOW. Yes, even if you're in your early 20's...infact it's more important to save when you're younger because of the power of compound interest, and the fact is you won't need to save as much per month if you start earlier. To make what would be regarded as decent money in China outside of international school positions, you're going to have to hustle a bit. That's going to involve teaching quite a few classes, and we all know teaching classes can be exhausting mentally if you're actually trying. You've got to conserve your energy anyway you can.
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mike w



Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1071
Location: Beijing building site

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Do you want to get to age 60, then be booted out of China because you're too old for a visa


Really? Then explain to me why, at the age of 63 I have just got my 18th consecutive visa?

There is nothing vague about professionalism to a professional teacher.

As for the rest of your obnoxious post, I'd get booted out if I really wrote what I thought.

But it would be nice if you went and trolled somewhere else for a change.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emp1 wrote:
Honestly for the university job I just put on movies, don't do any lesson planning or marking at all since that's time I could be using to earn more money elsewhere.
....

Whereas you can conserve your energy by watching movies instead, which means you're not knackered for the real money-making jobs that pay a good hourly rate.

We all know teaching classes can be exhausting mentally if you're actually trying. You've got to conserve your energy anyway you can.

Given your preoccupation with conserving your energy, what are you really doing while the students are watching movies? Sleeping?
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Emp1



Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike w wrote:
Quote:
Do you want to get to age 60, then be booted out of China because you're too old for a visa


Really? Then explain to me why, at the age of 63 I have just got my 18th consecutive visa?

There is nothing vague about professionalism to a professional teacher.

As for the rest of your obnoxious post, I'd get booted out if I really wrote what I thought.

But it would be nice if you went and trolled somewhere else for a change.


Likely you're working somewhere that is lax about rules. Do you deny that age is a barrier to a visa or are you just nitpicking using useless anecdotal evidence?

He'll even if you could work until you dropped dead, I don't want to. To retire, buy a house, raise a family...you know, all those things people generally wish to do as they get older...This requires money. Lots and lots of money. You're not getting it at a public uni position, so you HAVE to teach extra classes elsewhere to build up savings. That's a fact...those who coast through life earning 5000-8000 at a public uni are gonna have a wakeup call when they get sick, have a kid, or don't feel like working into their 70s.

But as anyone knows, giving a good lesson requires mental investment...you simply can't afford this if you're working lots of classes. And my bank balance, ensuring my family have a good life, and my financial future are much more important than any students. A Chinese teacher would be the first to agree with me...look at how many do nothing in their classes but rake it in through private tuition instead. That is essentially an excellent model to follow to maximise financial gain.
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bograt



Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

mike w wrote:
Quote:
Do you want to get to age 60, then be booted out of China because you're too old for a visa


Really? Then explain to me why, at the age of 63 I have just got my 18th consecutive visa?

There is nothing vague about professionalism to a professional teacher.

As for the rest of your obnoxious post, I'd get booted out if I really wrote what I thought.

But it would be nice if you went and trolled somewhere else for a change.


Likely you're working somewhere that is lax about rules. Do you deny that she is a barrier to a visa or are you just nitpicking using useless anecdotal evidence?

He'll even if you could work until you dropped dead, I don't want to. To retire, buy a house, raise a family...you know, all those things people generally wish to do as they get older...This requires money. Lots and lots of money. You're not getting it at a public uni position, so you HAVE to teach extra classes elsewhere to build up savings. That's a fact...those who coast through life earning 5000-8000 at a public uni are gonna have a wakeup call when they get sick, have a kid, or don't feel like working into their 70s.

But as anyone knows, giving a good lesson requires mental investment...you simply can't afford this if you're working lots of classes. And my bank balance, ensuring my family have a good life, and my financial future are much more important than any students. A Chinese teacher would be the first to agree with me...look at how many do nothing in their classes but rake it in through private tuition instead. That is essentially an excellent model to follow to maximise financial gain.


This makes sense to me, if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. A business has to provide a reasonable cash incentive for people to make a proper effort in a job that requires one. Personally I'd find deliberately slacking off in a lesson difficult but can see why others do it.
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thechangling



Joined: 11 Apr 2013
Posts: 276

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emp1 wrote:
The key is to do little to nothing at university and stock up on language centre work in evenings and kindergarten/high school work in mornings/afternoons where possible.

Honestly for the university job I just put on movies, don't do any lesson planning or marking at all since that's time I could be using to earn more money elsewhere. Yeah I might get slated by some who think ESL teachers should be 'professional'...as though this were just like a real career back home providing stuff like pension plans, employee rights and increased salary for years of experience. As it's not however, I'll just do whatever I can to earn the most money now - myself and my family come way before any employer or their students.

As hard to accept or otherwise that this post may or may not be depending on your point of view, I suspect this is how a lot of Chinese teachers see themselves as operating in China because the system is so corrupt.
There are no valid rewards for operating fairly and with integrity in China so most people just play it to their maximum advantage and extract what they can out of it while they can. In China honesty, integrity and hard work is not rewarded like it can be in the west. It's not a moralistic crusade, it's about survival within a system that is crude, cruel and unforgiving.
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Emp1



Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thechangling wrote:
There are no valid rewards for operating fairly and with integrity in China so most people just play it to their maximum advantage and extract what they can out of it while they can. In China honesty, integrity and hard work is not rewarded like it can be in the west. It's not a moralistic crusade, it's about survival within a system that is crude, cruel and unforgiving.


Yep, this is what it boils down to, and before some public uni hack comes out with the 'teaching and the love of educating is its own reward' crap - it isn't. I don't consider it a privilege to teach, and I damn well don't want to live my life poor. The 'rewards' of doing a good job should be a nice house, decent holidays, savings to put aside for retirement, increasing salary throughout the years, being able to raise a family in comfort.

Teaching abroad, outside of the few genuine international schools, is not a 'professional' job. No one working at a uni, language school or high school teaching ESL is a 'professional' teacher. Professional teachers have teaching qualifications (no your CELTA or TEFL certificate certainly isn't one, and saying it is so is quite frankly an insult to those with their PGCE/state teachers licence) and a career path that includes substantial pay rises and responsibilities. Teaching English in China is more comparable to being a waiter or waitress in a restaurant...the money actually can be pretty good sometimes, but there's no upwards progression and it's not a 'career'. You should just do everything you can to maximise financial reward while minimising effort.

Everyone willing to slave away for their uni and actually plan good lessons, a syllabus, mark papers etc should just load up a pension calculator sometime. Now this doesn't apply if you're 60 already, have worked in the west for 30 years, and you're already set. In that case, do whatever you want. For those who don't have a substantial amount saved, or mummy and daddys trust fund to fall back on, you need to start banking serious cash.

To have an age 65 retirement income of 15000RMB (so we're not even talking rich here, just 'OK'...remember when you retire you'll need to pay for your own accommodation if you don't own a house) you need to be saving 10000RMB a month from the age of 35. If you start at age 25, you need to be saving 6500RMB a month. Just have a think about that. To have a reasonable quality of life after you finish working, you need to be banking more money per month than the average uni FT gets for his whole salary.

And that's only one of lifes big expenses. Want kids? That'll cost you a whole lot. Buying a house? In most places in the world that you can feel comfortable buying property you'll need a 20% deposit which can easily be 300,000RMB+, and then you'll be paying a mortgage of 3000-5000RMB a month. Still think you can work hard for your uni and not worry about picking up more money through side work? Think again. Unless you want to live poor, retire poor (or more likely, not retire at all), and either not have a family or have their grow up in poverty, you need to get your ass down to the language centres in the evenings and get some kindergarten or high school classes in your free mornings or afternoons. And of course, we still want to enjoy life to some degree while we're doing this, not returning home to do mountains more work or being completely exhausted because we gave it 100% in the classroom. Something has to give...choose between teaching quality or your own financial future. I might no apologies for choosing the latter and IMO anyone who chooses the former just hasn't had the rug pulled out from under them yet.

I bank 20,000RMB a month in this country. I'm actually securing my financial future. Yes, it means sacrificing lesson quality, but you don't make an omelette without cracking some eggs.
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Son of Bud Powell



Joined: 04 Mar 2015
Posts: 179
Location: Since 2003

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emp1: You certainly have an engaging, professional attitude. I'm sure there's another forum where winners like you can converse on the same level.

A little reminder, champ:

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=109532

Before you go, please explain this. Where did you learn this?

I bank 20,000RMB a month in this country. I'm actually securing my financial future. Yes, it means sacrificing lesson quality, but you don't make an omelette without cracking some eggs.
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Emp1



Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Son of Bud Powell wrote:
Emp1: You certainly have an engaging, professional attitude. I'm sure there's another forum where winners like you can converse on the same level.

A little reminder, champ:

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=109532

Before you go, please explain this. Where did you learn this?

I bank 20,000RMB a month in this country. I'm actually securing my financial future. Yes, it means sacrificing lesson quality, but you don't make an omelette without cracking some eggs.


I don't have a professional attitude because ESL teaching isn't a professional job and no one teaching outside of an international school (or joint-venture uni program with western faculty) is a professional teacher. Just like you're not a professional lawyer unless you went to law school, regardless of how much legal knowledge you've picked up through Google and watching CSI over the years.

If you want 'professionalism', then you have to pay for it. That's the other side of the deal. Professionals expect things like good salaries, career development, pension planning, employee rights...good luck finding those in China outside of an international school. As public unis aren't paying, they don't get the good (and more exhausting) lessons - my other employers who pay 200rmb per class do.

I would certainly rather be the guy with a 'bad work attitude' who owns a house and a car, can go on nice holidays, provide his family a good life, and look forward to a comfortable future after finishing his working life, than an FT who gives 100% to his classes but lives his life poor, somehow convincing himself 6000rmb a month is decent living and no future planning is needed. That FT is an absolute idiot...and get this...the Chinese laugh at that guy, joking in the staffroom that they've somehow got this loser who is happy to jump all manner of hoops for peanut wages. The guy who games the system to his advantage is given much more respect. Just look at how the Chinese teachers do it...they teach next to nothing in the classroom, saving it instead for tuition sessions after school and on weekends.

'You don't make an omelette without cracking some eggs' is a pretty common saying, BTW.
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Professionalism comes from within.
A skilled surgeon donating his time in the 3rd world, doesn't do shitty work cos he's not getting paid.
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roadwalker



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1750
Location: Ch

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I blame the Chinese for my own mercenary attitude! I'm a total victim here, brought here against my will, but I wouldn't expect you professional types to understand. The Chinese laugh at you, all of them!

[Readers' Digest version]
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Son of Bud Powell



Joined: 04 Mar 2015
Posts: 179
Location: Since 2003

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Empt1:

I meant for you to explain how the following sentences relate:

I bank 20,000RMB a month in this country. I'm actually securing my financial future. Yes, it means sacrificing lesson quality, but you don't make an omelette without cracking some eggs.


Also, explain why you don't have a professional attitude because you're not paid a professional wage. Being able to bank twenty grand a month indicates that you're getting a professional wage. Or do you mean that you have a lot of private students over whom you overcharge and ride roughshod. That sort of thing doesn't last very long for two glaring reasons: the work runs out when mom and dad figure out that the FT is a slacker and 2) for you to pull in that kind of money while engaged in so many activities would indicate that you don't sleep.

Much of what you say makes no sense whatsoever. Are you really an FT? If you're not, you're really funny. If you are an FT, you're hilarious.
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