Job Discussion Forums

fluffyhamster · Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:52 pm Post subject:

I've nothing against AETing and indeed have done my fair share of it in Japan. What I don't understand though is why these dispatch agencies are getting so nasty about everything. It's like even they can't stomach what the business is becoming, and are acting out like a partner with a guilty conscience (think John Cusack in Pushing Tin LOL).

RM1983 · Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 360

nicenicegaijin · Joined: 27 Feb 2015 Posts: 157

I don't think the dispatches are getting "nasty" as you call it. They have just realized that Japan is so alluring for people that they can squeeze and squeeze gaijin, but they will just keep coming. It is just business sense, why pay someone 250.000 yen to do a job when you can pay them 200.000 or less. It is not really a job that depends on productivity, so if you pay someone 200.000 they will probably do the same quality work as if you paid them 250.000 yen. Which is smile a bit and read things from the board, those that want to do more such as teach the class by themselves or make worksheets will do so no matter what the pay is, as they are more motivated by ego than anything else. If I was in the dispatch business I would try to squeeze to 150.000 yen and see if I could get people and maximize profit.
Eikaiwa is different as I assume you get burned out quickly and you just do it for the money, whereas people do the ALT gig for the downtime and the fact that you don't really have to work. 150.000 yen is still quite a good wage for not really working, but just being in a classroom and reading things from the board and talking to kids every so often.

fluffyhamster · Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:22 pm Post subject:

The nastiness as anyone would call it - counterproductive shouting and screaming and carrying on by trainers who should know better - has been reported by several posters, most recently kah5217. What would you call that at least, NNG?

And it plainly isn't business sense to make survival impossible for workers. I believe the technical term is "cutting one's own grandmother's throat". Last I heard NHI and local tax payments were finally being linked to visa renewal, good on the one hand but bad if an increasing number of AETs really are only getting 200K a month at most now.

In case anyone isn't quite sure about the sums involved, here's a quick example breakdown of monthly outgoings:

50K modest rent
40K subsistence foodstuffs
20K commuting costs (this often isn't paid)
20K NHI (after first year where it's only 1 or 2K)
20K local taxes (again, only after a year or two)
10K utilities (if pretty frugal)
10K miscellaneous expenses (say a new item of clothes each month)

That's potentially 170K already per month, which may be more than one actually receives if the pay is pro-rated. Factor in the lower-or-zero pay-for-a-month-or-two deal (especially after the summer vacation) and the average AET will be really struggling, certainly at times if not constantly, unless they have savings to subsidize the venture or do privates in the evenings or something.

I don't think 150K would be possible, unless (and that's a very big unless!) one was content to eat only one packet of cheap instant ramen every. single. day., and never ever go out socializing. One wouldn't even be able to afford Japanese study materials (the lifeblood of many a stay-at-home scrooge) on such a pittance. I think one would have an absolutely miserable existence, and be in serious danger of going completely bonkers. Even 'wage slave' doesn't cover it.

nicenicegaijin · Joined: 27 Feb 2015 Posts: 157

Fluffy hamster sama,

Yes, I would call that nastiness, but that is nothing new. Dispatch companies are full of gaijin "managers" who know nothing about management and like most badly run organizations where employees are not happy the people who end up in management are usually the most sociopathic. Read about the Michael Collinson case and Interac to get an idea of what these managers are like.

The point is 10 years ago people were saying if the pay went anything below 250.000, no one would do it, but there are more candidates than ever these days. It wouldn't surprise me if we do see 150.000 in a few years and gaijin will still do it as you said by supplementing with privates. The only reason people like ALTing is they don't really like working and ALTing kind of lets them have a job without having a job. ALTing is close to being a lifestyle to many and dare I say if they turned it into a volunteering job, they would still get people. I think if the ALT companies turned into charities, provide an air ticket, accommodation the visa they could run it similar to now and make even more money.

fluffyhamster · Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:33 pm Post subject:

Well, as long as the government expects AETs to take out NHI and pay even a yen of tax then IMHO it's a job. If the powers that be did want to claim such local poverty as to make AETing volunteering a la VSO, then yes, the least they could do is cover flights, accommodation, utilities and health insurance, plus just enough so that the teacher wouldn't starve. Lifestyle, what lifestyle LOL. And the downtime can become a drag. If eikaiwa micromanaged less I'd teach in them rather than AET, but I've taught in both Chinese and Japanese private language schools and have to say that I prefer Chinese punters more. Another potential bonus of eikaiwa tho (apart from the more stable pay) is that you'll have at least a few western colleagues as opposed to all Japanese. But probably the biggest reason to prefer AETing to eikaiwa is that the former doesn't involve evening and weekend hours (not again that there's always that much lifestyle filling those evenings and full weekends).

mitsui · Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 1562 Location: Kawasaki

ALTs do work. To call it a vacation is very patronising.
They put up with a lot and can deal with difficult co-teachers.

zues · Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 32

Anyone still working here? Can you confirm if anything has gotten worse? If so, how?

RM1983 · Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 360

JRJohn · Joined: 21 Jun 2006 Posts: 175

There are many things I love about Japan. But one sometimes gets the impression that in the Far East employers have a negative focus. They focus on problems. They are also increasingly risk averse, and averse to taking them on new western staff and paying them properly (except maybe in China). One gets the impression that some schools see us as a necessary evil to be phased out! Yes, there are bright points, but read on.
I have taught with Interac. I can honestly say that the best part of Interac was the training week-it was really exciting. It declined from there. When I worked with them one ALT complained that Interac were just
middlemen who had stolen a big chunk of the salary the Board of Education would have given us if Interac hadn't slipped in and stolen it. The man who said this was a former JET teacher and had earned twice as much money with them as with Interac! To me this is a real problem! We are talking about expensive Japan not "cool Japan or even "kawai nihon." I am not looking at this from the point of view of the son of a wealthy tycoon, who can afford not to be paid.
When I was with Interac, they only paid half salary for the vacations. Another BIG PROBLEM is that Interac . didn't pay zilch for the first 2 months, so I had to borrow money from them! This may be the dispatch company way, but is it the Japanese way? The third problem was the biggest. I call it "worshipping the god of Key Money;" (there might as well be a Shinto god of Key Money as far as I am concerned); and key money is a rip off because foreigners often pay much more key money than the Japanese, and yet homes are empty and the population is declining. I borrowed money from Interac, but the money came late so I had to use a credit card. Don't do this, please!
Of course I had many wonderful experiences in Japan. Diet and exercise did wonders for my waistline. I learned hundreds of kanji. I made friends. But I would be deeply, deeply worried about going back to Interac-even assuming they would have me.
In school we 3 ALT's stayed on on till 5 p.m. (and sometimes later), because there was massive pressure to join in club activities and to build up our English Club. It was a high profile school. Sometimes I felt I was in competition with the other ALT's for school favours. I had to get up at 6:00 because some classes were out of town and I had to share a class with the school's own ALT! Very strange.
Later on I left and moved to Tokyo. A friend of mine thought that after "doing time" in a sleepy village, he would have Interac's blessing to move to Hiroshima and teach there. Not a bit of it! One of the trainers at Interac told him his next placement would have to be rural. So he resigned. No wonder! I know some rural positions are quite nice, but one can be lonely in the "inaka" areas. But at least the rent and key money won't be so high. That's so important. Savings are possible.
I am increasingly convinced that English teachers and ALT's in Japan should be in unions or some equivalent organisation which fights for their rights. I know unions are an imperfect instrument, and I know a lot of Americans loathe socialism, but the fact is that unions helped build up salaries and worker's rights. With the decline in unions, salaries stagnated in the U.K. and U.S.A. You need to all be in the same union. Even if you don't get all you want it will make a real difference and you'll feel better. But you need to get organised!

mitsui · Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 1562 Location: Kawasaki

Yes, but many teachers think they don't need the union.

They don't want to pay monthly dues, and they care nothing for their fellow teachers.
Some don't bother to pay for health insurance or the pension.
I work with four ex-Interac people.

RM1983 · Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 360

Lamarr · Joined: 27 Sep 2010 Posts: 190

I guess they want to cut out the admin and hassle of the hiring process. Apparently the number of JETs is down from a peak of over 6,000 around 10-15 years ago, to somewhere in the region of 4,500. That's still a fair amount of people.

Interestingly, it seems to have increased slightly in the last few years as well. Could that be because some BoEs have decided that the quality of ALTs and the whole set-up through JET is better than a dodgy dispatch company?