Job Discussion Forums

[Son of Bud Powell]

Following is an excerpt from an email from a fairly reputable and (apparently) western-managed recruiting consortium that coordinates several independent recruiters.

Comments?


MARKETING TIP: if they [the recruiters] ask you how much you want, the ideal answer is "the best you can". That way they can work hard competing against each other and getting you the best option. Don't be too concerned about the salary upfront, really promote yourself by having a wonderful interview, and then ask for more money if it is warranted. If you have interviewed for multiple schools, you can leverage them against each other for your benefit.

Visa (China): AFTER you sign a contract, your school will send you an invitation letter/other paperwork for your visa. SUGGESTION: Come on a tourist/business visa, check out the school for a short while to make sure it is 100% where you want to work for a year and then go to Hong Kong for a work visa (if applicable). Once you get a work visa it is difficult to transfer to another school, so obviously make sure it’s absolutely where you want to work. (You may want to keep this method to yourself as schools want you committed for a full year)

IMPORTANT: Technically, you should have a Z visa when working. An easy workaround is that you are “pretending to teach” before you obtain your work visa. A large portion of foreigners are on a variety of visas. This is a simple, legal workaround if you choose to use.

[RW8677]

[buravirgil]

Grade A Codswallop

A recruiting consortium that's "fairly reputable"? Why not just say?

You likely have your reasons...it's a pity such misinformation doesn't incur a liability, but our enterprise doesn't lend itself to a simple jurisdiction.

The term "school" is abused for its generic character. Even on these threads, when posters report income-to-contact hours, unless you've worked in this country, it's difficult to discern apples to apples.

[Son of Bud Powell]

No need to name the consortium. If you come across this, you'll know.

I'm not so much looking for attacks on the outfit as comments on the recommendations. Unfair, hateful remarks are too easy to make and impossible to take back.

Has anyone come across such advice? Is it REALLY STILL advisable to seek a Z visa in HK? I've never done a visa run (and I'll never even consider doing one). Are such things even still possible? Has anyone done one lately?

I am inclined to believe that this advice is coming from someone who is naive, not evil.

It's a mind-blower that any outfit would even give such advice. I have to wonder just how serious last year's "changes" to the rules and the supposed enforcement of existing policies have been. For example, when it came down that unauthorized outside work would be punished, there was a lot of talk about extreme caution here in this forum and others. That, however died down, and private work is discussed openly as if there have been no busts.

I'm not trying to stir up another anti-recruiter fish fry. It isn't necessary. I do think, however, that an ongoing, intellectual, NONEMOTIONAL discussion of visa and work policy change is beneficial to all.

Trolls who have an ax to grind: this post is not for you.

[RW8677]

[Guerciotti]

The bargaining tactics are subject to debate. First job, any bargaining will probably get all your emails deleted. Go ahead, but it might not work.

The Hong Kong run, as far as I know, is best left to the non-native speakers. That HK run is risky at best. It's not even an option in some eastern provinces. Someone might know an exception, but do you want to gamble $2000? The HK run as was practised is history.

'Pretending to teach'? No one would accept that. Sounds like a good way to give the police a good laugh before they deport you. Hell, that's such a stupid thing to say, you might get a free cigarette and a light for your effort.

This recruiter or whatever is a clueless hack.

[Son of Bud Powell]

Yes, the "pretending to teach" bit is bizarre. I've NEVER seen this advice given.

[JoeKing]

[Guerciotti]

[JoeKing]

[Son of Bud Powell]

I wrote the head of the consortium a letter pointing out the caveats being raised here. My contact has a western name, though the people with whom the coordinator is working are Chinese.

I figured that more good will come out of sharing information from several sources than publicly flogging the person. When I get a reply, I'll post it.

[Markness]

I came with 500 bucks, a business visa, and a whole lot of dreams. I did a successful HK visa run about 4-5 months ago. I am in the south though, so maybe they have more guanxi here. It was worth it, but like others said, maybe it's not the brightest idea. Apparently they are starting to reject people now, and if that had happened to me before I would have been royally screwed.

Now, I never have to leave the country (for 5 years), my company can just renew everything from the visa office (don't know how, but they've been doing this for lots of people).

Overall, a recruiter is a necessary evil if you like to change cities often, I wouldn't recommend them otherwise, they take too much. My first school I worked at gave me an apartment and 5000 yuan. I asked the principal how much they were paying me and she told me in the 12-14k range. Was my apartment/bills really worth the extra 9000RMB?

[hdeth]

They are getting rid of the HK visa runs. My school hired several new teachers at the last minute and had them come over on tourist visas because the Z visas would take too long to process. Now they are paying out the butt because they have to send all of them back to their home countries to change things over to a Z visa.

It's not really about the employees' protection. A legit operation has to have FECs and Z-visas for their teachers to keep them on their payroll.

[JoeKing]

[wangdaning]