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Hatcher
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 602
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 Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:13 pm Post subject: Big demand for certified teachers and PhDs |
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I see job ads for cert teachers, usually American or Brits.
Seems the demand is very high. Is the supply there?
Same goes for PhDs |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: Big demand for certified teachers and PhDs |
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| Hatcher wrote: |
I see job ads for cert teachers, usually American or Brits.
Seems the demand is very high. Is the supply there?
Same goes for PhDs |
This is likely the true international school market.
It seems to have its own economics - far removed from the FT market.
PM salaries of RMB20K not unusual for international schools as they have to make sense to working teachers in the West, who intend to return to teaching after their China term. |
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Simon in Suzhou
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 404
Location: GZ
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| A lot of places advertise that they WANT certified teachers and PHD’s, but outside of true international schools few are actually paying much more for these qualifications. My university pays 500rmb more per month for a PHD than a BA. This is pretty typical. A good majority of these advertisers will NOT actually hire a certified teacher or PHD. It is just wishful thinking on their part. |
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Charlie123
Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| i'm thinking of biting the bullet and doing an online certification program. Anybody care to weigh in on this idea? Which one is best? |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:01 am Post subject: |
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http://www.teachinternational.co.nz/au-nz-courses/itesol-course/
I have their part class part online cert which they no longer offer.
I have NEVER been asked a grammar question so that component is somewhat superfluous.
The general strategy they teach for oral classes gave me confidence and a framework to gauge how I was going in class. |
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Hatcher
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 602
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| So many of the places asking for cert'd teachers will in time take teachers without certs? |
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Son of Bud Powell
Joined: 04 Mar 2015
Posts: 179
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Big demand for certified teachers and PhDs |
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| Hatcher wrote: |
I see job ads for cert teachers, usually American or Brits.
Seems the demand is very high. Is the supply there?
Same goes for PhDs |
If they're seeking "certified teachers" what they want are PGCE (England) and national licensure (U.S.). It isn't the same as an online TESOL or TEFL certification.
In some universities in the U.S., in order to take the licensure test, one must take certain specific subject courses and be accepted to a university's graduate school. Most of the licensure courses are not available online. In my state they were available a few years ago as part as a lateral-entry program. The program isn't in existence anymore.
If one wants to subject himself to the rigors of national licensing, why would he want to teach in China when a much more comfortable life is to be had at home? (Granted, inner-city teaching is no party, and the kids can be pretty awful). |
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Charlie123
Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Big demand for certified teachers and PhDs |
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[/quote]
If one wants to subject himself to the rigors of national licensing, why would he want to teach in China when a much more comfortable life is to be had at home? (Granted, inner-city teaching is no party, and the kids can be pretty awful).[/quote]
Because the quality of life in the United States is at an all-time low. |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Big demand for certified teachers and PhDs |
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| Charlie123 wrote: |
| Son of Bud Powell wrote: |
| If one wants to subject himself to the rigors of national licensing, why would he want to teach in China when a much more comfortable life is to be had at home? (Granted, inner-city teaching is no party, and the kids can be pretty awful). |
Because the quality of life in the United States is at an all-time low. |
Including the Great Depression, this graph of Share of Total Income 1912-2012 supports the description of an "all time low".(MarketRealist.com)
And US Wealth Distribution (FlowingData.com) dramatically presents proportion.
But there are other metrics to emphasize the US' growth (as well as the planet's population) as presently enjoying the greatest access to goods and services ever known. I saw it on a TED talk, but don't want to hunt it down right now.
That said, SoBP is correct, largely; Only a small percentage of certified teachers fail to find employment in their native US and consider opportunities abroad. It's a choice more prone to early retirees. A recent graduate might not work in the neighborhood/market of their choosing in their first years, but as vocations go, it's a stable one. There is no doubt a very small percentage with wanderlust...but I doubt it will sate the recent "international" trend of which we're all aware.
I was intrigued by a Chinese proposal of contracting a certified teacher for three years with two of the first years spent in China and the final year in the US, all with the same population.
But, SoBP, citing "the kids" of the inner-cities as having anything to do with teacher burn-out is an abominable opinion, anecdata notwithstanding.
Thankfully, we're on a forum where the topic isn't relevant and I won't argue it beyond this post. Any defense you'll make of it is to your own shame. |
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Son of Bud Powell
Joined: 04 Mar 2015
Posts: 179
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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So you're comparing American statistics that compare the income and GDP of one American era to another American era to the present Chinese era?
Have we forgotten to boil our water before we drink it in the Kingdom's Land of Milk and Honey, or did we just drink the Kool Aid? |
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Son of Bud Powell
Joined: 04 Mar 2015
Posts: 179
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Big demand for certified teachers and PhDs |
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| Charlie123 wrote: |
Because the quality of life in the United States is at an all-time low. |
Compared to what? (No need to answer. Mr. Buravirgil has provided a brilliant fallacious comparison for us). |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Son of Bud Powell wrote: |
| So you're comparing American statistics that compare the income and GDP of one American era to another American era to the present Chinese era? |
No.
I linked a graph that illustrates a statement on inequality. Another way of saying it:U.S. income inequality has been growing for almost three decades. But until last year, the top 1 percent's share of pre-tax income had not yet surpassed the 18.7 percent it reached in 1927, according to an analysis of IRS figures dating to 1913 by economists at the University of California, Berkeley, the Paris School of Economics and Oxford University. Much was made of it in Robert Reich's documentary Inequality for All, in which Reich framed this fact as The Great Regression.
I cited this fact to lend support to Charlie's123's assertion the US economy is in a poor state, but did not share their conclusion it might explain why licensed teachers in the US would emigrate to China for work.
"Quality of life" is a far fuzzier phrase than various indices and beside the point, in my opinion.
While I'm here: There is no "national" licensing of US teachers of which I'm aware. There are certifications from two boards of standards, awarded to teachers already licensed by their state. |
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Mikeylikesit114
Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 129
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:34 am Post subject: Teaching Certification |
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In my experience, the only schools in China that require a teaching credential or pgce are actual international schools. The primary reason for this is so that the school can either obtain or maintain its accreditation.
As for Chinese international (not real international schools) schools, teaching credentials are not really necessary. The better paying ones (higher than 24k a month) may ask for teachers to be certified, but this can be offset by other factors such as a master's degree, teaching experience, or teaching a subject in which the demand for teachers outstrips supply (Science, Math, Economics).
Certified teachers in China are still very rare compared to the number of jobs, so schools generally have to settle for teachers that are less than certified.
Disclosure: I have a master's in my teaching area, as well as a celta, and 7 years teaching experience, four of which have been in Chinese International schools. I would never consider teaching back home in the US. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:38 am Post subject: |
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Certified teachers in China are still very rare compared to the number of jobs, so schools generally have to settle for teachers that are less than certified.
I assume you are referring to true international schools?
The other factor in this group requiring home-certified teachers, is parent demand.
They want their kids to slip seamlessly back into their home country's education system when the international posting is over.
This factor underpins salaries and other benefits offered to teachers in international schools. |
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Son of Bud Powell
Joined: 04 Mar 2015
Posts: 179
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| buravirgil wrote: |
| Son of Bud Powell wrote: |
| So you're comparing American statistics that compare the income and GDP of one American era to another American era to the present Chinese era? |
No.
I linked a graph that illustrates a statement on inequality. Another way of saying it:U.S. income inequality has been growing for almost three decades. But until last year, the top 1 percent's share of pre-tax income had not yet surpassed the 18.7 percent it reached in 1927, according to an analysis of IRS figures dating to 1913 by economists at the University of California, Berkeley, the Paris School of Economics and Oxford University. Much was made of it in Robert Reich's documentary Inequality for All, in which Reich framed this fact as The Great Regression.
I cited this fact to lend support to Charlie's123's assertion the US economy is in a poor state, but did not share their conclusion it might explain why licensed teachers in the US would emigrate to China for work.
"Quality of life" is a far fuzzier phrase than various indices and beside the point, in my opinion.
While I'm here: There is no "national" licensing of US teachers of which I'm aware. There are certifications from two boards of standards, awarded to teachers already licensed by their state. |
I don't have the training to respond to your frequent and confusing asyndesis and logorrheic rants.
I will say, however, that there is a national teaching test in the U.S.. (I thought you said that you have been teaching since the '90's).
It is called the Praxis. [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praxis_test ]. It replaced the NTE, the National Teachers Examination quite awhile ago, though the NTE is still administered in some places in the U.S.. You might want to visit the site and see how many of the fifty states require it for teachers of primary and secondary public schools. (BTW, "certification" and "licensure" are used interchangeably in American education, just as "degree" and "diploma" are. One can split hairs, but I'm no barber, and I'm not too fond of that sort of thing).
I really don't care to go into explaining any of this or to engage you in any more discussions.
I wish you a happy day, every day. You certainly deserve it for your contributions.  |
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