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nicenicegaijin
Joined: 27 Feb 2015
Posts: 157
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 Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:58 am Post subject: |
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There you go, inability to hold your own in an argument. The reason being you have nothing to offer to the discussion apart from ad hominem attacks and red herrings. I hope you realize that turning everything into a joke is a sign of weakness and it demonstrates that you don't have a leg to stand on.
Keep feeding your children contaminated food then, keep burying your head in the sand, keep drinking your beer so things don't matter anymore. What was it NHK said? There an no immediate health effects from Fukushima. |
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Maitoshi
Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:12 am Post subject: |
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I find it difficult to take you seriously. I thought you were the one making jokes. If all the food my family eats was sourced from affected areas, our exposure to radiation would still be less than we get from a flight to visit the grandparents.
It's people's gross misunderstanding of radiation and headlines that all of Tokyo should be evacuated that makes this fearmongering.
Just because I can't be bothered to find anything else right now to help put this into perspective:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/08/10/the-fukushima-radiation-leak-is-equal-to-76-million-bananas/
I guess I'd better watch how many bananas we eat, too. |
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nicenicegaijin
Joined: 27 Feb 2015
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| Maitoshi wrote: |
I find it difficult to take you seriously. I thought you were the one making jokes. If all the food my family eats was sourced from affected areas, our exposure to radiation would still be less than we get from a flight to visit the grandparents.
It's people's gross misunderstanding of radiation and headlines that all of Tokyo should be evacuated that makes this fearmongering.
Just because I can't be bothered to find anything else right now to help put this into perspective:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/08/10/the-fukushima-radiation-leak-is-equal-to-76-million-bananas/
I guess I'd better watch how many bananas we eat, too. |
The first statement about the flight, there are different kinds of radiation exposure, internal and external from background radiation. Show me your source show I can destroy its credibility.
Yes, you obviously can't be bothered to find anything worthy of adding to the discussion so you sent me a link which had to be from one of the worst examples of journalism I have ever seen. I will attempt to teach you how to think critically and evaluate your sources. First of all Forbes is pro-nuclear and the writer was involved in the nuclear industry = bias.
Terrible article: business and tech writers like Tim Worstall are allowed to google a simple fact (“bananas are radioactive”) and then base a whole article around it, oversimplifying a big problem. this is wrong on so many levels, and not a single scientist (i.e. a nuclear physicist) was consulted. amateurism at its finest. The headline is catchy, but missing two very important words: “…is equal to 76 million bananas PER HOUR”. PER HOUR not in total. This article did not further the publics understanding of the issue, it waters it down saying how harmless the radioactive leaks are, forgoing that radiation is accumulative, and heavily dependent on the dosage.
Tim Worstall paints the picture that a natural occurring radioisotope of potassium, K40, or potassium 40 has the same effects as the fission products of Uranium 235, U235 and plutonium 239, Pu239, on the biology of humans. “The human body maintains relatively tight homeostatic control over potassium levels. This means that the consumption of foods containing large amounts of potassium will not increase the body’s potassium content. As such, eating foods like bananas does not increase your annual radiation dose. If someone ingested potassium that had been enriched in K-40, that would be another story.” (Paul Frame, Oak Ridge Associated Universities) The radioisotopes common as fission byproducts, have totally different effects in the body. The radioisotopes that are common are isotopes of iodine, cesium, and strontium. Radio-iodine is hyper-toxic to the thyroid gland. Thyroid disease and cancer are the results. The preborn, and young are especially vulnerable. Cesium mimics potassium. It will find its way to all the places where potassium is found. In the human body, cesium will collect in muscles and nerves. Cesium does not behave in these tissues as potassium. Cesium in low concentrations will cause myocardial infarction, a heart attack. Make that radio-cesium, and one adds the specter of mutations and cancer. Strontium mimic calcium. It goes where calcium goes. It makes a bee line to the bone. It has not decided decided how long strontium will stay in the bone, but I have seen figures up to 48 years. Radio-strontium will cause bone cancer. In growing children, radio-strontium deposition in the skeletal system is a health disaster, and will most likely be the cause of death. Each radio-element has its unique behavior in the body. None are harmless. The natural occurring isotopes, potassium 40 and sodium 22 are not harmless, but life has evolved with them. As long as these remains at their normal background levels, our bodies have developed means to repair the damage done. At higher levels, mutation and cancer will result.
Even without research all you need to do is look at the japan government map I have linked previously, look at where the fall out was and you can see that food in Japan will be contaminated, then you have the sea where they are still fishing.
Basically what this also boils down to is the fact I am a PhD, I am a professor although in a different field and have actually done research for my PhD and continue to do so. I know how to evaluate sources, how to research, how to critique texts and how to construct arguments without resorting to logical fallacies. You on the other hand are an MA are not professor and I doubt you will be able to prove me wrong without resorting to underhand tactics or snide comments. If I am not sure of things I do not get into an argument until I have the facts at hand. I have presented you secondary sources and even have primary data to back it up. We can see a gap forming between the two of us in the way we think, where as you have decided what the status quo is based on emotion, whereas I have analyzed, evaluated facts and drawn my own conclusions. Which are I would not feed my children, (if I had any) food from the 5 contaminated prefectures, nor would I live east of Osaka if I had children.
2 years ago I drove from Kanto to Tohoku with a russian geiger counter I bought of amazon. I checked the air radiation while driving and saw it spike greatly from Nasu Shiobara to Minami Sendai. At utsunomiya I put it on the ground where Japanese children were playing around in the dirt and the geiger counter read dangerous background radation. All the places I drove past I saw farms where crops were being cultivated, where is all that food going?
If anyone has any doubts, but a non-Japanese geiger counter and repeat a similar experiment before you start calling BS. |
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Maitoshi
Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:30 am Post subject: |
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I have obviously been misinformed, NNG. I hadn't spent much time considering the issue, really, as I thought it to be overblown and an issue over which I have little control. You, on the other hand, obviously have spent a great deal of time on this. I concede that you are likely right and know way more about it than me. That being settled, what are some practical steps we can take to improve the situation? Put another way, what are you doing to protect your family (aside from sourcing food elsewhere)?
Last edited by Maitoshi on Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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cat mother
Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 62
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| nicenicegaijin wrote: |
At utsunomiya I put it on the ground where Japanese children were playing around in the dirt and the geiger counter read dangerous background radation. All the places I drove past I saw farms where crops were being cultivated, where is all that food going?
If anyone has any doubts, but a non-Japanese geiger counter and repeat a similar experiment before you start calling BS. |
Actually, I have repeated such experiments. At my previous job we were required to measure radioactivity (using two different German made counters) and post the results for all the parents to see.
Surprise! They were no different than similar control readings taken at universities in other countries.
And I can tell you that what you wrote is total BS.
PS. You might be a professor, but I actually studied physics. |
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Maitoshi
Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Kinda looks like we are all SOL. Guess I may be better off just burying my head in the sand again  |
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Maitoshi
Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| Been doing the same thing regarding climate change... |
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nicenicegaijin
Joined: 27 Feb 2015
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Maitoshi wrote: |
| I have obviously been misinformed, NNG. I hadn't spent much time considering the issue, really, as I thought it to be overblown and an issue over which I have little control. You, on the other hand, obviously have spent a great deal of time on this. I concede that you are likely right and know way more about it than me. That being settled, what are some practical steps we can take to improve the situation? Put another way, what are you doing to protect your family (aside from sourcing food elsewhere)? |
It is not that I know more than you about it, but I have done more research. I know zip about nuclear, but I know how to research. My university currently have faculty researching Fukushima at the moment and I have spoken to them a few times about it and gained an interest. The only way to improve the situation is to learn the kanji for the places that had fall-out on the government maps and if you are more paranoid expand the area. If you go to a restaurant ask them where the food comes from, if they don't know then I would avoid it. If I have children I would move to west Japan or leave. I also tell my wife to not cook food in tap water and I have checked the area I live in with a geiger counter. |
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