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Xanthos
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 151
Location: Beijing
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 Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:21 am Post subject: Resign from one post after 3 months and transfer Visa? |
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Hi, currently I am working completely legally on a Z Visa + Residence Permit teaching English with a Foreign Expert (FE) Certificate, etc. in Beijing.
I am considering a new teaching position in another school in Beijing which starts after 3 months of my contract in my present school have gone by.
I am under the impression that I will simply be able to hand in my resignation 1 month before I intend to leave, and then my FE Certificate, etc., can be transferred to the new school without a problem.
Something the HR person from my new school said about my current employer possibly having an issue with the process has concerned me a little. I know different employers have different rules - possibly about refunding visa costs or something, but my contract doesn't stipulate anything like that and former colleagues of mine seem to have terminated their contracts without much trouble.
Does anyone see a common potential problem here I may be overlooking?
Many thanks. |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:35 am Post subject: |
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Of course, none of us but you know all the details of your contract, so anything proposed may not be valid.
First off, a couple of questions:
1) Did the former colleagues who had no problems terminate mid-contract or did they fulfill their obligations before moving on?
2) I would guess there are many employers out there that would have an issue with the fact they paid for your visa/residence permit and other costs to sign you on to their school, and then you leave mid-contract and they have to go through the process all over again, shouldering the costs a second time within a school year. Does your contract specifically say that it is okay to leave before the end of your contract (with a one month notice, of course) and these costs would not be an issue? If it's not written in the contract, then you may or may not be liable for them.
3)
| Quote: |
| I am under the impression that I will simply be able to hand in my resignation 1 month before I intend to leave, and then my FE Certificate, etc., can be transferred to the new school without a problem. |
In China, you cannot be "under the impression". It must be stated in your contract for you to leave with no problems. And even then, there may still be problems.
Others will disagree, but I am of the firm mind that one should fulfill their current contract completely before moving on to another job. We expect the same of our schools, don't we? Why shouldn't they be able to expect it from us? What would your feelings be if the school, after 3 months of employment simply decided to terminate you because they interviewed a teacher who they felt might do a better job than you? Suddenly, you're out on the street, scrambling to find a new position.
(Obviously, there may be extenuating circumstances why one might want to leave a job, such as being unpaid, bad housing, or being forced to work overtime with no overtime pay, etc., but your post doesn't seem to indicate this.) |
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Xanthos
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 151
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:58 am Post subject: |
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Thanks kev
| kev7161 wrote: |
| 1) Did the former colleagues who had no problems terminate mid-contract or did they fulfill their obligations before moving on? |
They terminated mid-contract.
My empoyer is a very big industry leader like English First and Wall Street English by the way. I think they are used to this kind of thing.
| kev7161 wrote: |
| I would guess there are many employers out there that would have an issue with the fact they paid for your visa/residence permit and other costs to sign you on to their school, and then you leave mid-contract and they have to go through the process all over again, shouldering the costs a second time within a school year. |
They have been renewing my visa for a few years already - the contract that I am under is not a 'fresh' contract if you see what I mean. It rolled over as I renewed every year. I'm not sure if visas cost the same amount to the company every year, or whether it's a much cheaper process when a specific existing visa is renewed for another year...?
| kev7161 wrote: |
| Does your contract specifically say that it is okay to leave before the end of your contract (with a one month notice, of course) and these costs would not be an issue? If it's not written in the contract, then you may or may not be liable for them. |
No, nothing about that. It just says I must give 30 days notice and compensate the company economically if I fail to resign according to the law (I'm assuming that would be giving less than 30 days notice). As I said before - former colleagues resigned befor their contract end dates without any apparent issues. I'm still in contact with many of them.
| Quote: |
Others will disagree, but I am of the firm mind that one should fulfill their current contract completely before moving on to another job. We expect the same of our schools, don't we? Why shouldn't they be able to expect it from us? What would your feelings be if the school, after 3 months of employment simply decided to terminate you because they interviewed a teacher who they felt might do a better job than you? Suddenly, you're out on the street, scrambling to find a new position.
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Yeah I totally agree - I've already been working for them for a few years like I said, and this job position has come up at a time when it will be 3 months into a renewed contract.
My more focused concern for this situation is about transferring my FE Certificate, etc., to my new role. That is the area which the foreign affairs person in my new school had some doubts about, but who knows - they could just be unfamiliar with the process. Does anyone else have experience of that process?
Cheers again for your help. |
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asiannationmc
Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| I in the past .. long time ago agreed to go full time for Raffles after working part time for a while. I was suspicious so in my contract I had a 90 day no fault clause. I ended up using it after 60 days. |
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Son of Bud Powell
Joined: 04 Mar 2015
Posts: 179
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:12 am Post subject: |
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OP:
kev7161 lays it out pretty well, especially about not assuming anything regarding contracts.
And asiannationmc makes a brilliant suggestion of a 90 day no-fault clause in the contract. I wish I'd thought of requiring a 30-day no-fault clause in one of my contracts. |
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vikeologist
Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 600
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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You need a letter (generally called a transfer letter) from your current employer, which they are obliged to give you when you complete your contract.
They're not obliged to give it to you if you leave midway through, and they can easily make it impossible for you to transfer.
You need your current employer to cooperate and help you out by giving you the letter. |
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Xanthos
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 151
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| vikeologist wrote: |
You need a letter (generally called a transfer letter) from your current employer, which they are obliged to give you when you complete your contract.
They're not obliged to give it to you if you leave midway through, and they can easily make it impossible for you to transfer.
You need your current employer to cooperate and help you out by giving you the letter. |
Ah so this is probably it - thanks.
That's so crap if they do that, after so many years service.
This means that contract begin and finish dates need to overlap perfectly for each new job in order to guarantee the transfer.
If they do block me I'm going to be one disgruntled continuing employee. Do they really want that? |
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tlkdmc
Joined: 31 Mar 2015
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| vikeologist wrote: |
You need a letter (generally called a transfer letter) from your current employer, which they are obliged to give you when you complete your contract.
They're not obliged to give it to you if you leave midway through, and they can easily make it impossible for you to transfer.
You need your current employer to cooperate and help you out by giving you the letter. |
This is one of the problems with a forum like this... people stating things that entirely untrue.
The law clearly states that a letter of release is to be issued any time an employee leaves the employer. Even if the teacher leaves 3 months into a year long contract they letter must be provided. The letter of release should then also state the length of contract and length of actual employment. The letter thus supports that the employee did not finish his/her signed/agreed to contract and gives credence to future employers, PSB, FEBureau to not issue new credentials, contract, or employment. That is the purpose of the letter of release; to show that you are no longer employed and whether you completed your agreed contract or not. |
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Xanthos
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 151
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| tlkdmc wrote: |
| The law clearly states that a letter of release is to be issued any time an employee leaves the employer. Even if the teacher leaves 3 months into a year long contract they letter must be provided. The letter of release should then also state the length of contract and length of actual employment. |
Coolio. In my case the length of employment will be several years, so I'm guessing that will give me extra credibility over people who quit within the year of a year-long contract.
| tlkdmc wrote: |
| The letter thus supports that the employee did not finish his/her signed/agreed to contract and gives credence to future employers, PSB, FEBureau to not issue new credentials, contract, or employment. That is the purpose of the letter of release; to show that you are no longer employed and whether you completed your agreed contract or not. |
Understood.
When I am attempting to transfer over my visa to the new school, is there a chance that the visa office will refuse me just because I didn't complete my last contract? |
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asiannationmc
Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342
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| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The law clearly states that a letter of release is to be issued any time an employee leaves the employer. |
Is it a law or a regulation and if it is a law, does the law state a time limit or the possible punitive punishment for failing to deliver a letter. |
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Deats
Joined: 02 Jan 2015
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:06 am Post subject: |
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I'm not sure how you can be disgruntled. Regardless of how long you have worked there you are still breaking your contract and going back on what you agreed. I fully expect your employer to be angry with you. Why sign a year contract if you had no intention of staying? It is incredibly dishonest.
And yes, you do need to find a job where one contract ends and another begins. It's normal. It's what everyone does.
If I were the employer I would make it difficult for you to leave as you are totally screwing them. To find a SUITABLE replacement and get all the paperwork will take 3 months and a lot of money. |
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Son of Bud Powell
Joined: 04 Mar 2015
Posts: 179
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:51 am Post subject: |
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"...my contract doesn't stipulate anything like that and former colleagues of mine seem to have terminated their contracts without much trouble..."
If your contract merely states that you must give X time for notice of departure, as long as you give them that notice, you should have no problem LEGALLY. If you are a long time employee, your employer may have pretty strong feelings about your departure, especially if no breach of contract exists. |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I fully expect your employer to be angry with you. Why sign a year contract if you had no intention of staying? It is incredibly dishonest. |
This seems like an assumption. From what I'm reading from the OP, it doesn't seem like he re-signed a contract with the intention to leave shortly after the beginning of it. In my view, a new, more appealing job opened up. It happens. As long as his contract allows for an early departure with plenty of notice, then he should be fine. Repeat. . . . SHOULD . . . ! |
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Deats
Joined: 02 Jan 2015
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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He's dodged the questions about why he is leaving, so it makes me wonder...
To me a contract is a contract. If I am working for a company indefinitely and find a new job it's one thing. But it sounds like he just doesn't like the fact that he must apply for jobs when his contract ends, so has done it this way.
This is one reason why EFL teachers get treated like crap, because they treat their employers like this. It makes it bad for the genuine ones who wanna play fair. |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| Deats, you are preaching to the choir (I'm the choir, by the way). But I think his answer as to why he is leaving is because he found a different, obviously more appealing job. |
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