Job Discussion Forums

[philipjmorgan42]

Hi everyone

So I worked for just under 2 years in Mexico, which seemed like a long time to me but is probably just a drop in the ocean for some of the other expats on here. But anyway I thought I'd share some of my conclusions about work options based on my experiences and see what other people think

Language schools: worked for various different ones. Cons: poor pay, they often expect (or should I say demand) complete availability from you to work any day any time and an exclusive commitment to work for them. Classes are mostly in the evenings. Can't speak for others, but personally prefer normal working hours. Pros -maybe ok for novice teachers? Verdict: to be avoided unless you're desperate for a job.

ITESM: Worked at an ITESM Preparatoria Campus for 2 semesters. Pros: classrooms come with everything you could possibly want for your class...projectors, speakers, wifi access. Cons: far too much unpaid extra work aside from actual teaching time in classroom (marking, planning courses, grading) ; poor pay (especially considering first point); lack of professionalism (generally "the student is right and must be right because his or her parents is paying the teacher's wages" was the type of attitude I experienced and); problems with students and lack of support from staff. Verdict: avoid like the plague! (though maybe not all private Mexican schools??)

SUNEO University system Oaxaca: worked for a public university in the state of Oaxaca and this was without doubt the best teaching job I had while in Mexico. Pros: good pay; bonuses and good holidays; full time normal hours; teachers have their own office and freedom to teach the way they want to; no problems with students; generally professional; a real taste of Mexican education that you can't get from working for language schools or at a private school like ITESM. Cons: the universities are not located in areas which are particularly interesting from a tourist's point of view; because students have no English background prior to studying it at university and will almost certainly not use it again after university, it can be frustrating and demotivating for you as a teacher teaching them. Verdict: Definitely worth taking one of these jobs if one comes your way even if only for a couple of semesters.

Free lance classes / classes in companies / online classes
This is something that I did a little of whilst working for ITESM and then eventually ended up doing full time for while. I'm planning to write another forum specifically about that since I have a lot to say on the subject...but pros and cons: pros: good pay per hour; potentially lots of demand for classes (depending on area); deal directly with students and cut out bureaucracy; get paid in cash and don't pay any tax on it; free to teach students according to your own methods and ideas; good for meeting Mexicans and learning about Mexico. Cons: problems with cancellations, unreliable students and timewasters; classes often at unsociable hours (early mornings and evenings); you need your own teaching materials; good level of Spanish required. Verdict: this is a very good option if you want to work for yourself and in my case gave me a very good income (20 000 pesos plus monthly). However, it is not for the fainthearted. You absolutely need a good level of Spanish, plus a bit of experience in Mexico and a bit of know how about how things work here to make a go of this.

This post is already very long so I won't say anything else except to thank people on here who helped me with info when I was in Mexico and invite you to give me your thoughts...Que esperan? Contestame ya jaja!

[BadBeagleBad]

Wow! That´s a lot of jobs in two years. While starting pay at language schools is on the low end, you can work your way up. I know people who have been working at some of the well known chains for upwards of 10 years and have all moved into other positions besides teaching.

A lot of the comments you made about teacher are not limited to Mexico, but to teaching in general. I have taught in three different countries (including the US) and did not find much of a difference in the three. Teachers everywhere have to prepare on their own time, maybe you hadn´t taught before and didn´t realize that.

[water rat]

Mucho gracias for sharing Phil. Said it before, I'll say it again. I've been around the world twice, in this game 30 years, and the Mexicans are the finest people on Earth. My first jobs were in El Paso and Ciudad Juarez, but I admired the Mexicans even before I started.

Then one night in a Tokyo tequila bar, I met 'Pedro' a Japanese business man who had worked in Mexico and loved and missed those guys as much as I did. We shared a few Coronas and a plate of burritos. His English was poor, my Japanese was worse, so we spoke Spanish together.

Era tan nostálgico y sentimental

[esl_prof]

Thanks for sharing, Phil! This was very interesting and informative. It sounds like you gained a lot of experience during your very short time in Mexico.

[Fitzgerald]

Yes, thank you for this post. Lots of good information / observations here.

The language schools are an interesting topic, so I am going to start a couple of other threads about issues specifically related to them.

I am going to do some privates, although my Spanish is not the greatest. I am specifying "intermedio / avanzado" in my ads. I'll report back on how this goes.

I worked full-time for Tec Prepa Sinaloa in Culiacan for three years, as some of my longtime readers here know. I concur with all your comments. During my stay at Tec Prepa Sinaloa, the administration lowered the starting pay for new international teachers considerably, and as an unsurprising consequence, had much more difficulty attracting them. (Fortunately, my salary was grandfathered in.) I would however consider working part-time for Tec Queretaro, although I am sure the part-time pay is unspectacular.

Tec Prepa is scarcely as bad as a Mexican prepa / international school can get. I lasted three years there; I didn't even complete one semester at Colegio Peterson in Mexico City, it was so unbelievably awful. (It is a real courtesy to even call Colegio Peterson a school.)

I have not taught at other Mexican universities, public or private, but I am going to approach some of these in Queretaro for part-time work.

[MotherF]

[Fitzgerald]

I looked at Philip's February 19 post again today, because it has remained in my mind as one of the best pros-and-cons analyses of different types of international teaching that I have seen.

The comments on language schools are right on the money. Even the best of them are exploitative. I am working for one now, as I am in transition from one city to another, and they do have their uses during such a period because you can find jobs at them quickly if you are "on the ground." Turnover is ultra-high, so there are always jobs available. With rare exceptions, though, none of these schools will spend an extra peso to keep a good teacher on staff. They are used to the turnover; it means nothing to them, since it is part of their business model.

[BadBeagleBad]

I would just like to add one comment here, food for thought. While pay is low for someone from the US/Canada/UK, etc., when you compare it to what you would earn in a similar job in your home country. It is NOT low pay for Mexicans with similar, or sometimes more, education, doing a similar job. I have relatives who work in public schools and while they have a good benefits package, stable jobs, etc., they make less than half of what I do - one with over 20 years of experience, and one with 12 years of experience. The first one is a normalista, the second has a college degree and a post grad certificate. Not sure why people come from other countries thinking they are somehow going to make more money than locals, and often with less training. Lots of people think that just being able to speak English is all they need and have no interest in learning to be an effective teacher, yet expect high pay.

[Fitzgerald]

[AGoodStory]

[Fitzgerald]

Thank you! Let me add a follow-up point.

People often want to become a teacher or professor because they believe it is congruent with and assistive of their intellectual goals and their personal values. I have generally not found this to be the case.

Teaching has occasionally been assistive of my intellectual goals, but not consistently enough to have justified making it my career.

Teaching has not been congruent with my personal values at all, because of the people I have worked for and have had to deal with.

I have worked in business, and I have worked in education, and let me say, I have encountered much slimier individuals in educational administration than I have ever encountered in any business. In public schools, in private schools, in high schools, in universities, in the United States, and internationally - the lowest of the low, over and over again. Business people are generally ethical, above board, and a pleasure to deal with by comparison!

At the end of my teaching career, there will be no cleaning procedure adequate to purge me of the muck I have had to swim through in education. It will unhappily linger in my system for the rest of my life.

Yes, I have had great relationships with many students, and I hope I have contributed something to their development. But that is not enough, never has been enough, to counter out all the rest.

[MotherF]

There are a lot of different things going on here.

First, Mexican primary school teachers. I know several from young teachers in their twenties to retired school teachers. All in the state of Oaxaca. It is a good career, especially if your parents were teachers. It can be hard to get started but I know families where both parents are public school teachers and the have nice houses and nice cars. They are definitely middle class. Once you get a plaza you are set. You work for 30 years and then get a full pension until you die.

For me personally it does jive with my values, but then I decided shortly after coming to Mexico that I'd never work for a for profit organization again.

While I agree that many or even most of Mexico's problems stem from the privileged class exploiting the rest of the country for their personal gain, and that is contingent on keep most of the masses in their place. I have had the opportunity to share in lives that have been transformed through education. But I'm sufficiently cynical about it to feel like the middle and upper classes, those who as you say already have the ticket, let a few poor people through on purpose because it justifies the world view that the poor are poor because they want to be.

I should mention that I left the US at 22, and never worked as a teacher there. (Or any other REAL JOB) for that matter. I spent 18 months in Japan at a language institute in the mid 90s and 6 months Vin Ecuador. Other than that all my experience has been in Mexico in the system deemed the best option in the OP.

[esl_prof]

[Fitzgerald]

[currentaffairs]

I hope to God that we don't try and copy the US way of doing things! Tens of thousands of dollars just to do a BA! It must be the most exploitative system anywhere.. Students taking out loans and working five nights a week to pay off huge mountains of debt!

More reasonable countries like Sweden provide education for free and maybe we could highlight them as a good example for the world!

On the personal values front, I really think we create our own reality. The people we connect with or don't connect with - it all comes back to us as individuals. A bunch of us could go out to Japan or Mexico now and we would have very different experiences even in the same region.. A culture or country will open out to you if you are open to it.. (with negatives always to be found, of course.)