Job Discussion Forums

[chryanvii]

This semester I have tried a new policy of forbidding phones completely in my classes. I teach all non-majors: Accounting and Engineering.

At the beginning, the plan worked quite well, and many of them followed the rule. If a student was caught abusing the rule, I simply took their phone away, and handed it back to them after class. I usually have had to do it for about 1 or 2 students in each class. Their behavior continued, and therefore I had to take points off their participation grade.

A couple students have complained to me and told me that they
(1) Need to have their dictionaries to check words, and
(2) They are not in primary school anymore, and think this policy
is too strict
(3) They want to check the time [which seems plausible enough]

Even though students have known the rule from the very beginning, many of them are using passive-aggressive behavior, and using their phone to check their dictionaries anyway. I try to let it go as much as possible, but I feel they are disrespecting me as a teacher, since they understand the rule I created on the first day. In fact, we had a speaking activity all about the rules on the first day.

I have explained the reasons clearly to them about why I don't want them to use cell phones:
(1) They have all had at least 9-10 years of English classes, and
should have enough vocabulary to speak with each other
(2) The point of the class is not to use big words, but to express
themselves using simple English. I want to focus on correcting
their tenses, etc.
(3) If they don't know a word, they can either ask me, or ask
another student in their group how to say the word.

What's your opinion about this? Am I being too strict? In my opinion, if they can use their dictionaries to check words, it is too easy for them to revert to using their phone for other things, such as checking We-Chat messages [and we know that they ALL do it...I have observed other teachers' classes from the back of the room, and seen this behavior myself.

It is distracting to me when I see students using their phones for other things, particularly since I am so tall and can see EVERYTHING! I am just one of those kind of guys with a temperament who cares a lot...

Therefore I have decided to ban them completely as a way to (1) give myself peace of mind, and (2) allow them to focus on the class

...But I often Question myself about this rule, and Doubt myself...I have two different sides...the guy who wants to be the "nice guy" and hope that all the students will like me and want to make friends with me after class, and the guy who wants to be the "real teacher" and play by the rules.

I don't want all the students to "hate me", as some students have said would, if I implemented this policy...particularly since I often see them around campus every day, all throughout the day!

My philosophy has always been that they have a 10-minute break to do whatever they want.

When I ask some of the students' opinions outside of class, they think it is too strict, and they feel they should be able to use their phones as dictionaries [while others tell me they think it's okay]. Some also say they feel like I am treating them like a child.

There seems to be split opinions among teachers about this, and it seems to be based on personality type. So I want to know your opinions
-----

On another note.....is this kind of behavior tolerated in classes in America these days? Are students in America glued to their phones just like the Chinese students? If so, the behavior seems to be amplified in China.

It has always seemed to me as highly disrespectful behavior to openly be using your phone in class for other things...

even when sitting at lunch or dinner with others, upon receiving a text message, I always make an effort to say "excuse me" to the person I am talking with, and send a simple message to the person telling them "I am busy, and need to talk later."

Is this just a big cultural difference? It seems that this kind of inconsiderate behavior is much more tolerated in China than in America.

[7969]

[Andre 3000]

I think you've been very forthright about the application of your rule - if you do want to change it, be equally forthright: make a point of explaining what the new rule is, don't just 'let it go', as this eats away at you, and the students won't respect you for it.

(2) The point of the class is not to use big words, but to express
themselves using simple English. I want to focus on correcting
their tenses, etc.
If the students aren't English majors, 100% accuracy and error correction may not be their focus - they're probably more interested in getting their ideas across, maybe using vocab from their discipline - can you not accommodate them on this?

3) If they don't know a word, they can either ask me, or ask
another student in their group how to say the word.
Quieter students won't do this - they'll just let it slide and participate less.

If you want to stick with the rule (I'm not saying you shouldn't), does the school have a set of small bilingual paper dictionairies that you could place around the class in the students' reach?

[zacharybilton]

Basic issues:

(1) are you a licensed teacher to call yourself a teacher in the respect area?

(2) why shouldn't students use e-devices to check dictionaries?

(3) why should you determine how they choose to learn so long as they are not using the phone for entertainment purposes?

My students are quite clear on rules regarding phones in my class. You as a teacher... should be able to recognize when students are using a phone in a manner that is inappropriate. It's easy to tell when someone is playing a game, chatting with friends, browsing online, etc. Finger movement, facial cues, and the like will tell you if they are doing something that they shouldn't be doing. Do you walk around the classroom or sit or dump your body against the podium?

Blanket policies are inappropriate and you're doing it, quite clearly, out of a domineering need. Just because you (presumably) and I didn't have electronic dictionaries when we were in high school and such doesn't mean a thing. Students have no desire to carry books when an electronic one does much more.

You're going about it the entirely wrong way. Students are there to learn, despite what you want to control. Even in speaking classes there are legitimate reasons for dictionaries, be it on a phone or not.

Besides this, your punishment is wrong. Taking the phone for a week or two is going to get your point across. So they don't get to use the phone for the class period, they can get past it.

Rules need to have a proper place.

[Deats]

I sympathise and admit that I also had a lot of 'western' rules in my classroom when I began teaching in China. Usually they don't work.

Go into any Chinese classroom and probably half the kids are playing on their phones. They will be annoyed with you for not letting them have phones in your class when they are allowed in Chinese teacher's classes. Also, every Chinese teacher has their phone with them. It always shocked me how Chinese teachers just stopped teaching to answer their phone.

One semester I had a rule that if your phone rang in class you had to pay 5Y and then all the fine money we put together and went out to have some food together at the end of the semester. This worked quite well and I also paid fine money if my phone rang. This was decided as a class before term began with students I already knew. We all agreed it was ok and they saw the benefit at the end that we would all go and have a nice evening together - I stress you MUST agree with the whole class to do this in advance, and have their full support. They could still use their phone as a dictionary on class but the phone HAD to be on mute.

By the end of my 4 years in China I pretty much dropped all my 'rules' as they ended up largely being a waste of my time and their time. You are in their country, so play by their rules.

The only thing I wouldn't budge on was plagiarism and cheating in the final exam. I knew that EVERYONE passed regardless of what score I gave them - if I gave them 40% they had to go and pay a bribe (to the dean I think) and their mark got changed to a pass. So it was pointless failing students. So what I said at the beginning of semester was that as long as they attended all the lessons, behaved with courtesy and respect, no plagiarism and didn't cheat in the final exam I would give them 60% to pass. Still, some people did copy and cheat, but hardly anyone in comparison to previous years. Also, the Chinese faculty then loved me because they didn't have all the hassle of changing my scores and it looked like all the students got wonderful grades because they were so great at English and I was such a great teacher. It's all about appearance in China. Teachers believe that the higher their students' scores, the better they are as a teacher. Therefore most Chinese teachers will doctor their student's scores.

Chinese education is a sham. The sooner you understand that, the more peaceful your life will be. Otherwise you will spend all your time in China banging your head against a brick wall, being promised things will change just because the head of English/FAO etc don't want to say no to you, even though they have no intention of doing what they promise.

[Babala]

My university has a strict no phones in class policy and I have always had this. There is no reason to allow phones in class. As a teacher you need to be able to explain new vocabulary in terms your students can understand. If they need further clarification then they are free to use an electronic dictionary after class.

When I train new teachers I find their biggest struggle is being able to explain things in simple terms the students can understand.

Any student using a phone in my class (only happens about once a semester) is kicked out of class immediately. I teach both English and non-English majors.

[Deats]

This is probably not the norm though Babala. You are simply enforcing university policy. Setting your own rules is much harder to enforce. And kicking out students would not be tolerated in 95% of unis in China. We were told we weren't allowed to do this, which I felt undermined the teachers. I still did it once or twice to a couple of real douches. But it was highly frowned upon.

Also, if you are with a really low level class, then the students can't explain to you which word they want, so need a dictionary (usually on a phone). It's not only about how you explain the word, but their ability for them to explain to you.

[Son of Bud Powell]

On the first day of class, the first thing I do is draw a traffic-type sign with a mobile phone on it with a line through it. If I see a phone on a desk, I take it away. When I first began teaching in China, the problem was awful. I collected everyone's phone every day in every class for a week. They couldn't get it in their heads that they weren't allowed to use their phones in class under any circumstances.

Many used them to check the time. That was fine with me as long as the phone stayed out of sight under the desktop. Their Chinese teachers never corrected them regarding phone use, but when they came into my class, I required a behavioral change. It was a difficult adjustment for some.

In time, the students adapted. I asked the FAO at my first school (who was also the directress) about mobile phone policy. The FAO (who was a senior party official and had a lot of experience dealing with school policies and individual rights) told me that she admired the fact that I didn't allow them and that I picked them up. The Chinese teachers couldn't do this not because of policy, but out of "courtesy". I thought it strange at first because I was new in China. After a year or so, I understood.

But the FAO's attitude was that I was there to teach not just formal subjects but to teach western mores. If I didn't allow mobile phones in class, she said, they had to follow my rules. If they don't like it, tough tofu, Charlie.

Through the years, Chinese teachers told me that they admired my courage. Some told me that if they attempted such a thing, there would be a backlash from students and their parents (in a university!)--- and probably the guy known as the "work leader" (Does anyone know who the H these work leaders are?).

I relaxed my practice of confiscation. Usually, just a raised eyebrow make them put the phone away. As the students come to know me, they show more respect for me.

Re: phones as dictionaries: this must be approached delicately. Not all phones have dictionaries, and not all phones have good dictionaries. I had one absolutely horrible class at a vocational college that I placated by allowing all to use the phone "dictionaries" during the final test. I was sure that there would be some abuse. I found out later that most of the students texted each other for help with the answers. By that time, I was glad to be rid of them. That group would have found a way to cheat one way or another. One little #@!! actually got into the class and wrote down the answers to the test on the desk with permanent marker. He had gone to the copy shop and paid someone for a copy of the test. I suspected something was up when I passed him as i entered the copy shop. I went to my apartment and printed out another test. The kid just about p**d in his pants when he came to take the test. (I now print my tests in my apartment. I also give a copy to the dean on my way to class. I also drop off a test from the book at the copy shop just to throw people off).

The problem with phones in class exists in my home state alma mater, but not to the extent to which it exists in private colleges where kids' parents pay exorbitant amounts of money for a one-year degree.

It's an interesting situation when the director has no backbone to enforce the written rules and finds it necessary to weigh school revenue sources against against a teacher who tries to uphold school policy when he is upbraided for not doing so in every other situation.

In China, it's my class. I learn the rules, and I enforce them. If the Chinese teachers don't have the spine to do it, it's their problem, not mine. I've never been reprimanded for enforcing school policies regarding phones, and I've never been reproached for implementing my own policies.

[Non Sequitur]

Pick your fights and this ain't one of them.
Try to make your class so active and random as to who is going to get chosen to speak, that getting caught out is embarrassing.
They'll get the idea soon enough.
I like the phones banned sign idea, but exhausting yourself and good class time on rule enforcement is not the way to go.

[Son of Bud Powell]

Some situations just don't allow enforcement of rules. I worked for a one-year American "business" college that had a no-phones policy. It was impossible to enforce because the 20 year-old children felt entitled to bring every game and toy to class. The management refused to support the teachers in the no-phones policy, yet we'd have to listen to the director's yammering about phones, food, games, and toys in class. As soon as we'd fill out a report to the student's program manager, we'd get called into the director's office to explain to the parents why little Mimsey couldn't call her friends during class.

In that situation, there was no winning. Administration had no spine because it feared losing tuition income should a parent throw a hissy fit. If one runs into similar situations in China, there's no point in trying to enforce any code of behavior. Phones in class are probably only one of many problems.

I've had few problems with phones in class in China. I lay down the law and I enforce it. I'm not a jerk about it, but I am consistent. After the first few classes, just a raised eyebrow makes the phone disappear.

There are times, however, when I allow the students to use their phones for the dictionary function. They are told when they may use them and when they must put them away. I've found that English majors have fewer problems with following class rules because they tend to respect me more than non-majors. Many Chinese students are so sick of English by the time they get to college, they hate the FT and are sometimes very disrespectful. Using the phone in class is their way of showing disregard for the teacher. I allow them to sit in the back of class, bliss out on the games on their phones or text their buddies as long as they remain quiet.

Then I let them fail.

[santi84]

"No phones" is not a western rule (we currently use them extensively in our K-12 ESL, as well as adult education). It's an "I learned to teach back when smart phones weren't common in classrooms" rule. I promise, if you step into any ESL classroom in the USA/Canada today, you'll find the same thing.

[Son of Bud Powell]

[Didah]

Hi chryanvii,

No, you are not being too strict. A no cell phone policy has been the standard in most places that I have taught -- including a high school AP academic bridge program in Guangzhou.

From my personal experience, it is hard for a Chinese student to look up vocabulary words when they are on We Chat, watching a video or playing a game. From what I have seen, the cell phone is used about 1% of the time for academic purposes -- or when attempting to cheat on a test. It is a distraction. When I was teaching in Guangzhou, even though we had a no cell phone in school policy, the students were constantly sneaking around trying to use their mobiles on their lap in class and being distracted from their work. They were only focused on studying for the AP exam about week before testing when they would want to "cram for the exam" which was about the only time they were not jonesing to use their cell phones.

When I caught a student using a phone, I confiscated it and would return the phone after parent notification.

My students were all these privileged self centered mediocre spoiled brats with aspirations of going to a second or third tier college in the United States. Quite frankly, the only way some of these students would get into an American college is if their parents bought the school a new library or field house -- not even paying the full tuition would have been enough and I doubt these Chinese nouveau riche middle class families could afford that.

Whether you have a teaching credential or not -- you are not wrong in your cell phone policy. From my experience, this is not just a problem in China but is pervasive in most countries where I have taught. It is especially bad in the U.S. There, students expect to be able to use their cell phones any time and anyplace. I remember once when I was subbing while earning my teaching credential, the phone rang during class and the student answered it and just started loudly talking. I asked her to please put her phone away. She turned to me and while still holding her phone and talking, pointed a finger on her other hand at me and looking at me with disgust, as though I was some kind of idiot, informed me that "I'm talking to my mama." I learned that day, that talking to your blessed mother on the phone is the one exception to the rule for cell phone use during class -- at least in Los Angeles. Fortunately this rule was never invoked by Chinese students on the phone. They just gave me dirty hurt looks while I took it from them.

By the way, don't worry about if your students hate you -- they already do and there is not a lot you can do about it. Just sit around and wait for the parent complaints.

Good luck.

[hdeth]

When I was teaching at a University I allowed phones because their English was horrible. They needed that translator, especially for subject matter classes. If I caught them playing a gamer or something I would take it away for the class. We only met every other week and I had no office hours so it seemed unfair to take it away until the next time we met. It's not hard to catch them unless you just stay in front of the class while you are teaching (which none of us should do).

Currently at my high school, everyone struggles with this. The problem is we get no backing from the administration on any rule enforcement at all and the kids are rich enough they can just buy a new phone if we take it away for a longer period of time (some teachers will do a week). One teacher told me he took 7 phones from the same kid in one class period. If you're too strict they basically stop coming to class and then the administration gets on you for driving the students away. Without good administrative backing it's very frustrating.

[AKChina]

I've only been teaching in Vietnam, but my 'policy' is that providing they're quiet while playing their phone games, I'll let it slide.

Fact is in a group of 40 or 50 students, you're always going to find some who have no intention of learning and no desire no be there. Providing they're not distracting those who want to be learning, they can look at their phones. The alternative is taking them away and then having classroom management problems.

I also agree there's more important things in life than an English class. Maybe someone in the students family is critically ill, maybe they're waiting on news back from their university application, or any other of a million things that require them to be in communication with the outside world. If they need to answer the phone, providing they go outside while they're talking, it's no big deal. I'd do the same if something genuinely important came up...no one ever died from missing 5 minutes of English class.