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Son of Bud Powell
Joined: 04 Mar 2015
Posts: 179
Location: Since 2003
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 Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| AKChina wrote: |
I've only been teaching in Vietnam, but my 'policy' is that providing they're quiet while playing their phone games, I'll let it slide.
Fact is in a group of 40 or 50 students, you're always going to find some who have no intention of learning and no desire no be there. Providing they're not distracting those who want to be learning, they can look at their phones. The alternative is taking them away and then having classroom management problems.
I also agree there's more important things in life than an English class. Maybe someone in the students family is critically ill, maybe they're waiting on news back from their university application, or any other of a million things that require them to be in communication with the outside world. If they need to answer the phone, providing they go outside while they're talking, it's no big deal. I'd do the same if something genuinely important came up...no one ever died from missing 5 minutes of English class. |
If class management is lost over phone use, then there has never been anything but tentative management. Rules must be observed.
By the same token, exceptions must be recognized, and exceptions must be made discreetly. In my Chinese class rooms, students learn that I am understanding. If they feel that they may get an important call during class, they tell me before class and they leave quietly as if they were going to the bathroom.
In the U.S. where millennial students feel entitled to everything, I am unwavering, even with ESL students. Need to take a phone call during class? Goodbye. See you next class. Which is more important: knowing the outcome of your uncle's hernia operation as soon as he's wheeled out of the OR or my class? Take your pick.
Need to go to the toilet five minutes into class when you've had time to go immediately before my class? T.S., Eliot. Answer nature's call and don't come back. Any other policy can result in an endless parade of students going to the toilet (and sometimes not returning).
Fortunately, the vast majority of my Chinese college and university students demonstrate more maturity in their in-class behavior than many of their American counterparts, so maintaining class control isn't difficult. It usually isn't even an issue. |
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Shanghai Noon
Joined: 18 Aug 2013
Posts: 589
Location: Shanghai, China
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I see it both ways. On the one hand, as a teacher it is offensive to me when the students stare at their phones in class. On the other hand, I can't expect them to use technology in exactly the same way that I did in school. |
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ymmv
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 387
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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This is pretty simple to solve: Set your rules - whatever they may be. I set mine this way...I show them this video (which I have on my computer, but you can find the viral version here: http://www.collegehumor.com/video/107047/angry-professor
Shock and awe usually follow.
"Do you think I would do the same?' I ask them.
Mumbled "No's" and "I hope not." While students take the phones off their desk and slip them into their purses.
Then I point out that that guy is an American teacher in an American university, and probably never had to deal (much) with Chinese students.
My Rule, I finally pronounce, is that if you are using your phones inappropriately in my class (i.e. Weixin or Weibo, or sideways playing games, or messaging your bf, or ordering lunch delivery from KFC or McD) and not for looking up new vocab......
"I won't take your phone, or smash your phone, or fine you...I get to use your phone to call my mother back home. And I miss her very much, so please keep your phones on and feel free to use them." The phones come back out and you can see students turning them off.
This reverse psychology, and humo(u)rus approach has served quite well in my years here. Occasionally, someone's phone has gone off, and the rest of the class shouts, "ymmv, Call your Mom!"
it's so rare that it happens, but I appreciate that everyone remembered the rule, that I usually just slough it off with a "it's a 12 hours time difference so I don't want to wake her. You're lucky this time." And done is done. |
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zacharybilton
Joined: 23 Apr 2015
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Son of Bud Powell wrote: |
| AKChina wrote: |
I've only been teaching in Vietnam, but my 'policy' is that providing they're quiet while playing their phone games, I'll let it slide.
Fact is in a group of 40 or 50 students, you're always going to find some who have no intention of learning and no desire no be there. Providing they're not distracting those who want to be learning, they can look at their phones. The alternative is taking them away and then having classroom management problems.
I also agree there's more important things in life than an English class. Maybe someone in the students family is critically ill, maybe they're waiting on news back from their university application, or any other of a million things that require them to be in communication with the outside world. If they need to answer the phone, providing they go outside while they're talking, it's no big deal. I'd do the same if something genuinely important came up...no one ever died from missing 5 minutes of English class. |
If class management is lost over phone use, then there has never been anything but tentative management. Rules must be observed.
By the same token, exceptions must be recognized, and exceptions must be made discreetly. In my Chinese class rooms, students learn that I am understanding. If they feel that they may get an important call during class, they tell me before class and they leave quietly as if they were going to the bathroom.
In the U.S. where millennial students feel entitled to everything, I am unwavering, even with ESL students. Need to take a phone call during class? Goodbye. See you next class. Which is more important: knowing the outcome of your uncle's hernia operation as soon as he's wheeled out of the OR or my class? Take your pick.
Need to go to the toilet five minutes into class when you've had time to go immediately before my class? T.S., Eliot. Answer nature's call and don't come back. Any other policy can result in an endless parade of students going to the toilet (and sometimes not returning).
Fortunately, the vast majority of my Chinese college and university students demonstrate more maturity in their in-class behavior than many of their American counterparts, so maintaining class control isn't difficult. It usually isn't even an issue. |
I love it. Now this "teacher" is also a physiologist. I've never understood this concept that the need to go to the toilet is now regulated by the teacher.
In my town, about 3 years ago a middle school student jumped to his death from the 5th floor walkway of his school when his Chinese teach forbade him to go to the toilet during class; it turns out about 10 minutes into class. It was later determined that this kid had both two kidneys full of kidney stones and early onset insulin dependent diabetes that was untreated (presumably due to the nature of the practice of medicine in China).
So, we now have foreign teachers who think they have some right to regulate students toilet behavior, be it acute or chronic illness. I guess "Bud" whoever here has never had those spontaneous cramps that come with diarrhea. Sudden cramps that if not relieved in 20 seconds will result in defecation right then and there?
This endless parade of students going to the toilet only shows two things - either the students all have a related case of food borne illness or a weakness of the teacher to control the classroom in an APPROPRIATE manner. There is a huge difference in one or two students using the toilet in this manner versus 30.
Students who don't' return to the classroom in 1 or 2 minutes and come back in 30 minutes, or not at all, clearly need to be disciplined.
Where exactly is it the business of the teacher to regulate this? Let's see what would happen when your employer forbids YOU from using the toilet during a moment of need. Yeah, just like it's okay for the teacher to lie but not the employer. Let's see what would happen when you as an American, presumably, were to be told in America, "sorry, you can't go pee pee during work hours."
This is a prime example of the wrong people being in control of a classroom. No different than Nazi-like-Ameican-cops thinking they can control every aspect of everything. You want to teach your students something? Teach them they are legal adults and THEY ARE the customers and you nothing more or less than the employee. They pay YOU to do your job.
My class has rules. Adult-based rules. |
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AKChina
Joined: 29 Apr 2015
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Son of Bud Powell wrote: |
| AKChina wrote: |
I've only been teaching in Vietnam, but my 'policy' is that providing they're quiet while playing their phone games, I'll let it slide.
Fact is in a group of 40 or 50 students, you're always going to find some who have no intention of learning and no desire no be there. Providing they're not distracting those who want to be learning, they can look at their phones. The alternative is taking them away and then having classroom management problems.
I also agree there's more important things in life than an English class. Maybe someone in the students family is critically ill, maybe they're waiting on news back from their university application, or any other of a million things that require them to be in communication with the outside world. If they need to answer the phone, providing they go outside while they're talking, it's no big deal. I'd do the same if something genuinely important came up...no one ever died from missing 5 minutes of English class. |
If class management is lost over phone use, then there has never been anything but tentative management. Rules must be observed.
By the same token, exceptions must be recognized, and exceptions must be made discreetly. In my Chinese class rooms, students learn that I am understanding. If they feel that they may get an important call during class, they tell me before class and they leave quietly as if they were going to the bathroom.
In the U.S. where millennial students feel entitled to everything, I am unwavering, even with ESL students. Need to take a phone call during class? Goodbye. See you next class. Which is more important: knowing the outcome of your uncle's hernia operation as soon as he's wheeled out of the OR or my class? Take your pick.
Need to go to the toilet five minutes into class when you've had time to go immediately before my class? T.S., Eliot. Answer nature's call and don't come back. Any other policy can result in an endless parade of students going to the toilet (and sometimes not returning).
Fortunately, the vast majority of my Chinese college and university students demonstrate more maturity in their in-class behavior than many of their American counterparts, so maintaining class control isn't difficult. It usually isn't even an issue. |
But whenever you have large classes like in China, there's those with no intention to learn. They'll be the ones on their phones. Providing they're not disturbing others, what's the problem, really? They're old enough to make their own choices in that regard, I'm not their mother.
Would never dream of preventing anyone, adult or child from going to the toilet. That falls into the 'some things are more important than missing 5 minutes of English class' category. I always make sure I don't need the toilet before the lesson...but let's say a sudden attack of diarrhea came on, or for some reason I forgot to go before but now really need the toilet, you bet I'll halt the class and go. |
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zacharybilton
Joined: 23 Apr 2015
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 12:13 am Post subject: |
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Despite this being China, they are still legal, independent adults. If you really think you can exert domination 'cuz you're the white guy in charge, you're mistaken. Fact is, if you show from day one you a both likable and in-control as a teacher, A TEACHER, and not their buddy and whatever, then they should give you what you need to satisfy your own ego as a teacher and control-freak. It's their classroom, you are simply at the front. You need to tailor things so they learn and have classroom etiquette. I have only once had any sort of issue in class, and that's why a male student was so hung over, he was still drunk and when I came back and realized it and told him to leave he decided to rant and toss his books at me. I immediately grabbed him, thumb-locked him, through him in the hallway, contacted the Chinese teacher, demanded his parents or police be called. Phones in a classroom are nothing but controlling-freak teachers if you can't control their proper use, violence is another thing. This is university students we are talking about. Don't be Chinese and now tell students they can't hold their phone, check dictionaries, color their hair, wear a hat in class, wear short necklines.
Just do your job, teach. Hasn't it occurred to you that if all your students are plahing on their phone they either (1) don't like you, (2) refuse to listen to you, (3) can't understand you at all and thus looking everything up, or (4) everything else.
The root cause is you, the "teacher" |
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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 12:25 am Post subject: phones |
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They use them as dictionaries. Pick your battles - this one is not worth fighting. A phone is an inextricable part of their persona - it is anathema for them not to have them - all the more so in these Chinese cultures - it is ingrained now.
In Saudi, some teachers banned them (phones) from their classes - to their detriment in the long run - because in Saudi student evaluations mean that if a teacher gets repeated low evaluations, he will eventually lose his job. In China, there are also evaluations - official or not official, and with the latter - word gets around. I suspect admin would not like it if their students were 'unhappy' with their foreign teachers. One has to think of the big picture.
Not worth it. In any case, at age 18 years + they should be responsible for their own education, and banning phones (or other things) goes against the grain. The main thing, is that they should not disturb the teacher or other students from learning.
Ghost in China |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 2:59 am Post subject: |
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So far we've got teachers who:
1. Confiscate phones and only return it after parent notification;
2. Kick students out of class because they dared use a phone even for legitimate purposes;
3. Say their students hate them (ever wonder why?);
4. Don't allow students to go to the toilet when their body says they need to (sorry Bud, I usually like your posts but I can't imagine even trying to enforce this one);
5. (This one is from past personal observation at our school) Verbally abuse - complete with expletives - students for not showing enough respect to said teacher, students possibly used their phone in class as well.
If any of you ever get bored with ESL teaching a future working as a CO in the state correctional system awaits. 
| ymmv wrote: |
| My Rule, I finally pronounce, is that if you are using your phones inappropriately in my class (i.e. Weixin or Weibo, or sideways playing games, or messaging your bf, or ordering lunch delivery from KFC or McD) and not for looking up new vocab...... "I won't take your phone, or smash your phone, or fine you...I get to use your phone to call my mother back home. And I miss her very much, so please keep your phones on and feel free to use them." The phones come back out and you can see students turning them off. This reverse psychology, and humo(u)rus approach has served quite well in my years here. Occasionally, someone's phone has gone off, and the rest of the class shouts, "ymmv, Call your Mom!" it's so rare that it happens, but I appreciate that everyone remembered the rule, that I usually just slough it off with a "it's a 12 hours time difference so I don't want to wake her. You're lucky this time." |
Your approach is sensible and humourous, and not control-freak-like. Some posters could learn from this.
Last edited by 7969 on Tue May 12, 2015 3:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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litterascriptor
Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 3:11 am Post subject: |
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I don't have the time or energy to try and figure out who is using their phones appropriately or not. Yet, I do like to see my students utilizing all of the resources available to them, which at times can present a bit of a pickle.
Rather than me enforcing the rule of no phones, I put it to them to police themselves. I quietly stand in the front of the room staring at the person using their phone until they confirm its for use of their dictionary or turn it off. Generally if it is for looking up a word they don't know, I ask them to share it with the class. 9 times out of 10, another student knows how to use the word in a sentence well enough to keep things ambling along and are happy to share.
Most of the time, the students know who is using their phone to look for words and who is playing angry birds. When I give someone the... look... they generally scream at the angry bird players and generally give the one using their dictionaries a polite nudge. It took a while for them to understand that I don't mind them using their phones to look up words, but I might have them share with the rest of the class. Once they began to understand this concept, things went quite well.
I also found it helps to provide certain periods of time in which they run up to the front of the room and write down any words from their text or conversation they don't understand. From there we work as a larger group to define or give examples and using phones or dictionaries is encouraged. The rest of time, it isn't banned but it is frowned upon.
I didn't explain it, I didn't draw any posters, I just kept repeating the process over and over till they understood. Took a couple weeks.
This works for my classes where cooperation is forthcoming, I have a couple classes that are a bit more determined to learn as little as possible, phone use is not allowed. |
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Son of Bud Powell
Joined: 04 Mar 2015
Posts: 179
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 3:28 am Post subject: |
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Some folks missed the part about the toilet regulations being school rules as were the phone rules. If students left the class, they were to stay out. The students were inner-city at-risk students who were liable to shoot up in the bathroom.
Re-read what I wrote about phones in China. Also note what I said about allowing students to go to the bathroom IN CHINA.
Some folks get into a lather too fast. Read a little slower. Save your eyesight. |
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SH_Panda
Joined: 31 May 2011
Posts: 455
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| Son of Bud Powell wrote: |
Some folks missed the part about the toilet regulations being school rules as were the phone rules. If students left the class, they were to stay out. The students were inner-city at-risk students who were liable to shoot up in the bathroom.
Re-read what I wrote about phones in China. Also note what I said about allowing students to go to the bathroom IN CHINA.
Some folks get into a lather too fast. Read a little slower. Save your eyesight. |
Don't let obvious troll bother you. |
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SH_Panda
Joined: 31 May 2011
Posts: 455
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| ymmv wrote: |
This is pretty simple to solve: Set your rules - whatever they may be. I set mine this way...I show them this video (which I have on my computer, but you can find the viral version here: http://www.collegehumor.com/video/107047/angry-professor
Shock and awe usually follow.
"Do you think I would do the same?' I ask them.
Mumbled "No's" and "I hope not." While students take the phones off their desk and slip them into their purses.
Then I point out that that guy is an American teacher in an American university, and probably never had to deal (much) with Chinese students.
My Rule, I finally pronounce, is that if you are using your phones inappropriately in my class (i.e. Weixin or Weibo, or sideways playing games, or messaging your bf, or ordering lunch delivery from KFC or McD) and not for looking up new vocab......
"I won't take your phone, or smash your phone, or fine you...I get to use your phone to call my mother back home. And I miss her very much, so please keep your phones on and feel free to use them." The phones come back out and you can see students turning them off.
This reverse psychology, and humo(u)rus approach has served quite well in my years here. Occasionally, someone's phone has gone off, and the rest of the class shouts, "ymmv, Call your Mom!"
it's so rare that it happens, but I appreciate that everyone remembered the rule, that I usually just slough it off with a "it's a 12 hours time difference so I don't want to wake her. You're lucky this time." And done is done. |
I like this approach a lot.
You sound like a good teacher  |
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litterascriptor
Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| In China, I allow two students per class to use the toilet without comment. After that, I start getting tetchy about it, which cuts down on the number of people asking quite a bit. Just not so cranky that if someone really had to go they wouldn't ask. |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| Son of Bud Powell wrote: |
Some folks missed the part about the toilet regulations being school rules as were the phone rules. If students left the class, they were to stay out. The students were inner-city at-risk students who were liable to shoot up in the bathroom.
Re-read what I wrote about phones in China. Also note what I said about allowing students to go to the bathroom IN CHINA.
Some folks get into a lather too fast. Read a little slower. Save your eyesight. |
I did read the part you wrote about the toilet, and this is what I saw:
| Son of Bud Powell wrote: |
| Need to go to the toilet five minutes into class when you've had time to go immediately before my class? T.S., Eliot. Answer nature's call and don't come back. Any other policy can result in an endless parade of students going to the toilet (and sometimes not returning). |
I admit I did misread the bit about the toilet and you didn't write that they can't go to the toilet (as I posted), just if they do go early in the class then don't come back. Still harsh and unenforceable in my opinion. Many ESL programs in China are full of female students and with limited toilet facilities and everyone trying to use them in the same ten minute break, not everyone gets to relieve themselves. Guys have no problem with this. And being a male with mostly female students I have no idea how these girls feel from one minute to the next at certain times of the month. If they say they need the toilet 10 minutes after class begins they're free to go, and they'll be allowed back. I've never had an instance where a student went to the toilet and never returned within a reasonable time, and if some of you have numerous students disappearing to the toilet for half the class maybe there's a reason for that? Any policy, school or teacher imposed, that dictates when students can use the toilet is just plain stupid. |
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Babala
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1303
Location: Henan
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 5:06 am Post subject: |
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I really don't understand how people feel that using a phone in class is some right that their students are entitled to and that forbidding mobile phone use is equal to me being a prison guard 
Have you seen how bad many of those phone dictionaries are? I am lucky in that my classrooms have Oxford dictionaries already there so if for some reason a student needs a dictionary then they can use those.
Honestly I have never really had a problem simply explaining new vocabulary to them. As I said before, it's a skill that teachers really need to work on.
I find that allowing them to use a phone is killing their listening skills as they are not listening to you explain the word instead they are grabbing a phone and ignoring the verbal explanation. Again, if they need further clarification they can always use their phone after class. |
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