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ex500
Joined: 27 Nov 2010
Posts: 44
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 Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 10:54 pm Post subject: Online Masters? |
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How would an employer know that we did a masters degree online?
For example, if I were to only attest a BA by the relevant Saudi organization in the US (for visa purposes) and my MA was done online, how would a Saudi employer know I did my MA online?
What checks do employers do if any on degrees?
By the way I don't think any degree attestation is required for an employment visa in the UK, submitting a CELTA suffices. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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They are asking the universities directly if your MA involved any online courses. Of course, they could also look at your CV to see if you were working in another country while doing the MA online.
VS |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| ex500 wrote: |
If I were to only attest a BA by the relevant Saudi organization in the US (for visa purposes) and my MA was done online, how would a Saudi employer know I did my MA online?
What checks do employers do if any on degrees? |
Your MA degree and academic documents wouldn't be reviewed unless you submit it as your qualifying degree when you apply for your employment visa.
Employers don't check applicants' degrees. In the US, this function is handled by the Saudi Arabian Cultural Mission, which is a division under the Saudi Ministry of Education. In fact, the ministry is the entity that requires qualifying degrees to be completed on campus. The SACM will stamp a photocopy of your qualifying diploma (your BA), which you would then provide to the employer. |
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ex500
Joined: 27 Nov 2010
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 4:10 am Post subject: |
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So I could do an online MA and possibly get a better job in Saudi. I would just do the SACM attestation with my BA.
Do most employers even care about an online MA or do they just not check?
Or do they only care because the ministry says it is not approved and they should follow their rules.
And you can always remove the year of experience concurrent with the year you received the MA so it isn't apparent on your CV that you did it online. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| ex500 wrote: |
| So I could do an online MA and possibly get a better job in Saudi. I would just do the SACM attestation with my BA. |
Exactly how would you get a better job in KSA with a degree that's not recognized? Seriously, your online MA will not pass muster with the Saudi government. Period. That's also the reality in Qatar, Bahrain, and Kuwait.
| and wrote: |
| Do most employers even care about an online MA or do they just not check? Or do they only care because the ministry says it is not approved and they should follow their rules. |
Saudi employers are very much aware that online degrees are not accepted. But this isn't about employers "caring" or not---this is a requirement per the Saudi Ministry of Education. Some employers will ask during your interview if your degree has online coursework. This question is sometimes on employment applications as well.
| lastly wrote: |
| And you can always remove the year of experience concurrent with the year you received the MA so it isn't apparent on your CV that you did it online. |
You apparently didn't read the previous responses from me and VS. The SACM requires confirmation directly from your university registrar's office that your degree did/did not include online coursework---more specifically, how many courses were taken online. So go ahead and put your online MA on your CV; it won't get through the authentication process toward approval of an employment visa. In other words, qualifying diplomas must bear the SACM's "acceptance" stamp, which is what the employer will check for when drafting the actual contract.
By the way, most of the SACM staff in Washington, DC, are American citizens and not Saudi nationals. |
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myohmy
Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| Your employment contract, which must be submitted when you apply for an employment visa, will state what kind of degree you are being hired with. If the employer puts down Masters then you must submit that degre. When the SACM determines it was done online, you will not get a visa. I applied with a BA while I was working on an online Masters. At least once a semester my university requests soft copies of everyone's CV. I do put my completed Masters on my CV and while it has not earned me a raise (other than the normal 3-5% increase per year), I believe it has helped me get classes with better programs and/or higher levels. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| "Rules are for other people, not for me !" |
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hash
Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| myohmy wrote: |
| At least once a semester my university requests soft copies of everyone's CV. I do put my completed Masters on my CV and while it has not earned me a raise (other than the normal 3-5% increase per year), I believe it has helped me get classes with better programs and/or higher levels. |
So, let's see if I got this right. You are currently IN KSA working as a teacher. You got your job via a BA which was okayed by the Saudi Consulate - and - you were getting an online MA all along while being hired and while working at your current job.
Now you have the MA and you put it down as an educational qualification in your yearly university CV submission.
You believe it has gotten you cushier jobs although not necessarily higher pay.
Uh.....what is your point?
Are you trying to tell us that you are getting cushier jobs because of the online MA so that getting an online MA IS WORTH the trouble because it leads to cushier jobs?
I think you're spinning your wheels. It's possible you're getting cushier jobs based on your online MA. But your MA is not really recognized because then they would put you at a higher scale automatically. Just try to change your "pay scale category" by claiming that you now have an MA and see how far you get. Then come back and tell us what happened.
In any case, your MA will be worthless if you leave your current job and try to come back with another employer. Your MA will not be accepted at that point and it's Sayonara to your job prospects in KSA at least.
Course, if you find yourself trying to return after leaving you'r current employer, just don't mention that you have an MA at all. Come back on the certifiable BA and start again. I've done a version of this sort of thing on occasion in my own career. I have no problem at all "adjusting" my resume as the occasion requires. |
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plumpy nut
Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| ex500 wrote: |
So I could do an online MA and possibly get a better job in Saudi. I would just do the SACM attestation with my BA.
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If your Master's is in English or TESOL or maybe Education. |
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plumpy nut
Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 1:41 am Post subject: |
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[quote="hash"]
| myohmy wrote: |
In any case, your MA will be worthless if you leave your current job and try to come back with another employer. |
The MA would already be worthless to the weird SACM now and in the future, although not necessarily to his current employer or any future employers.
Just the same, if you wish to teach in the Middle East it might be worth putting of the MA until you can go to a Brick and Morter school. Use your Bachelor's for now to find whatever job you can and then come back for your Masters. You can use only a Bachelors, in fact it sounds like you are already prepared to do that. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 2:15 am Post subject: |
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| plumpy nut wrote: |
The MA would already be worthless to the weird SACM now and in the future, although not necessarily to his current employer or any future employers.
Just the same, if you wish to teach in the Middle East it might be worth putting of the MA until you can go to a Brick and Morter school. |
You contradict yourself. In what way would an online MA be of value to current and future employers as well as to the degree holder if it's not recognized by the Saudi Ministry of Education? (Again, the SACM doesn't establish government requirements.) For example, how did your online MA benefit you in terms of better job opportunities when you worked in KSA? |
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myohmy
Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 4:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Are you trying to tell us that you are getting cushier jobs because of the online MA so that getting an online MA IS WORTH the trouble because it leads to cushier jobs? |
Not trying to tell you any such thing, just sharing my experience. Also, there would be no point trying to get higher pay. I already make more being hired with my BA and two years experience then new teachers coming in with MAs and 5 years experience. |
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hash
Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 6:17 am Post subject: |
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[quote="myohmy"]
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Not trying to tell you any such thing, just sharing my experience. Also, there would be no point trying to get higher pay. I already make more being hired with my BA and two years experience then new teachers coming in with MAs and 5 years experience. |
I'm still trying to figure out your point. You may not be "trying to tell [us] any such thing".....but whether you're trying to or not, the result is the same. You are, for all intents and purposes, indeed telling us.
Now, in your latest farrago, we (I) learn that there's no point in asking for higher pay (based on your MA) since you're already making more than newly hired MAs with 5 years experience as opposed to your 2 years experience.
Like I said, I don't get the point of all this linguistic bravado. But I'm glad you have a job (and an "MA"). |
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AmerikanSultana
Joined: 23 Apr 2015
Posts: 10
Location: Istanbul
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 7:28 am Post subject: pay difference between MA and BA? |
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Hi! Sorry to be hijacking this thread but I think my question is somewhat on topic....
So what is the general or estimated pay difference between MA holders and BA holders?
Let's say you have 3 years experience and a BA, or a MA and same experience. What would the pay difference be, in general??
TIA  |
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MixtecaMike
Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 643
Location: Guatebad
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| What does hash have against online courses? Why is hash giving myohmy such a hard time? Why is hash such a nasty piece of work? Due for a break, I think. |
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