Job Discussion Forums

[rayhigh]

Greetings all,

While I am continuing to interview, I have two very nice offers from universities in two very different places in China. My circumstances are such that I have several factors to consider. Up front I will ask, if anyone has experience in either of these places, I'd greatly appreciate anything you can tell me. Information on Liaocheng is particularly thin on the ground.

Liaocheng has offered both myself and my wife jobs. The pay is 6000 for me, 5000 for her, the usual free housing, a two bedroom, which would accommodate our son. No pay for July and August even if we re-sign. Teaching hours 12 for her, 12-14 for me (TBD - different departments, more on that in a moment).

Here's the interesting bit: my wife is from S.E. Asia, though a U.S. citizen, and her English is very good. I understand it is pretty unusual for a university to be willing to hire a non-native speaker, no matter how good their English may be. The person I've been dealing with has been very kind. He is even going to make sure our teaching hours are staggered, so that we can look after our son in turn. She will teaching conversational English, I will be teaching legal English (law school grad).

Ningbo job is only for me, and would pay 9000 for 20 hours of teaching conversational English. There is also a suitable apartment, and I have been told that in spring semester, I can teach subject courses - law, literature, etc. - and that the pay for those is twice as much. I have been written this in an email, I don't know if I should ask for it to be put into the contract.

So I am torn, because I know little about either city. Also, in many ways it wold be nice for my wife to gain some experience teaching in China, perhaps (she is trained as K-12 teacher in her country), but teaching subjects would be really great. Also, if you re-sign, they pay 50% salary for July and August. Both schools pay in full over the semester break.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Best,

R

[Non Sequitur]

How old is your child?
If he is of an age that would benefit from exposure to Chinese schooling and language acquisition, the the two-job scenario might be the way to go. Sure pick up and drop off would need either of you but I feel there are three people getting a Chinese opportunity not two.
Interesting that the two-job school states up front that 'no July-August pay even if you do re sign'.
I'd park that one and raise it again when/if they offer you jobs for the following academic which I assume is 16/17?
Again for Job #1 you mention different departments for wife's job and yours.
I'd just check apartment proximity to both teaching locations and again for your wife - class size.
Just have an uncomfortable feeling about her being sent to a distant middle school and have 60+ kids to keep order with.
As your wife is from SE Asia, may pay to check weather stats for both places via Weather Underground
Best

[rayhigh]

Thanks so much for your reply.

Our son is 6, so yes, we'd like to send him to a local school.

Re: no pay for July-August, what they actually said was they only pay for 10 months, is this: "We warmly welcome your longer stay on campus. If you don't go back home during the summer, you can stay at your apartment for free. But according to the regulations of the government concerning the foreign teachers administration, all the foreign teachers can only enjoy a winter holiday (about two months) payment and can not be paid in July and August."

Sounds odd, I know.

Both teaching jobs are at the university.

Thanks,

R

[Non Sequitur]

If you choose the two-job school I'd still bide my time on the July/Aug pay.
Never heard of being paid for holiday being outside regs, but others may have. Winter paid is standard so they not doing you any favours.
If you including your son like the place and they offer a new contract for you and wife, then ask about paid one or two months holiday and/or a higher monthly going forward.
They've got a good deal - 2 for one hiring negotiation and one apartment.
I often preach a least downside mantra for your first job. Have seen too many good people pack up and leave because they sought too much and when it all went south they were overwhelmed.
Look on it as a two year + project.

[rayhigh]

All good advice, thanks.

It's funny, I've read over the contracts for the two school, the two-job contract is reasonable and pretty simple. For example, fully paid sick leave up to 30 days, with a doctor's certificate. The other job has a super-obnoxious contract nearly all the way through, insists you make up all the classes if you get sick, or have huge deductions from your pay, even has a clause in there about getting pay docked by 100 RMB if a student 'complains.' What? It's actually so ridiculous, I won't even consider that place. Late for class, good-bye 300 RMB? What? As I said, the two-job place has no nonsense like that at all.

I'm definitely looking at it as a longer-term thing.

I really appreciate your input. Thanks very much, again.

[RW8677]

[wangdaning]

[Non Sequitur]

They're just setting out a negotiating position but dressing it up as a government requirement.
It's duplicitous but that's China.
Unless OP has other offers, the hiring season is coming to an end and the 2 -jobber may be the best in show.
I'd go deeper rather than wider at this stage and see if ex or current teachers are available to contact.
Moving a family is a way bigger call than doing it on your own.
The other biggie is a Z visa obtained before you leave home.

[Son of Bud Powell]

[Deats]

I'm moving to China with my wife in Aug. We have taught in China for 4 years before. She is Russian, I'm English. The first uni jobs we took paid 6k each for 12 months (+ all usual benefits). The job we are moving to in Aug pays 11k for 10 months and paid summer holidays if we re-sign.

So I think the jobs you are being offered are not very good, especially if your wife has a teaching certificate. How good is her English, does she have any certificates like TEFL, CELTA, DELTA, IELTS, CPE?

We also have a child (newborn). Have you been to China before? You need to consider some things VERY seriously. Especially for your baby.

1) Air pollution:

Liaocheng - http://aqicn.org/city/liaocheng/ (ranks 'unhealthy' for the last 2 days which are recorded. 50 is good, it rates OVER 150. Shandong is a polluted province.

Ningbo - http://aqicn.org/city/ningbo/ is 95 at present and has been 'moderate' to 'unhealthy for some groups' for the last 2 days.

Both these cities are not great for air quality. You should really be looking at the south, in my opinion. At the very least a coastal region (so Ningbo is a little better)

2) Medical care - In China medical care is pretty appalling. You need to be near a good medical facility - especially for your child. Ningbo is not too far from Shanghai but Liaocheng is some way from anywhere that will have a good hospital. Again, somewhere in Guangdong - near to Hong Kong in particular, but also Guangzhou and Shenzhen - would be a good place to work. Really you need a very good insurance policy for your child from your home country. How much will this cost in relation to your salary?

3) Food - You need to know what you (and in particular your child) is eating. Make sure you know what supermarkets, restaurants etc there are in these places. I would think Ningbo would be better. A lot of food can be tainted, so you will probably need to spend more on your weekly shop - not sure your salary will allow you to buy too many western products though.

4) School/childcare/western parents - Presumably your child can't speak Mandarin? Will you throw your child into a Chinese school when they don't speak a word? How good would that school be in those cities? Are there other western parents there to offer advice, help, support? Any international schools? How much do they cost? There is no way 11k will pay for a good international school anyway.

5) Contracts - they both sound terrible. Fines, no summer pay, low salaries etc etc. Personally I would not even consider either job. The uni is having a laugh with you. They will only pay for 1 apartment, 1 set of bills and get 2 teachers at once, then they want to pay 6k and 5k. Pfff. Insulting. When I speak with unis I always tell them, if anything, we expect more as they are saving on housing and utilities, not less!

When we went to China without a child there were not so many concerns, but with a child it is a whole different ball game. Your kid has to come first.

[listerialysin]

Nobody should intentionally bring children to China; nobody. I would add this option to child abuse or bad parenting.

What is forcing you to leave the US? How old is your child? You're knowinly leaving America with your child to go to China and earn next to nothing. WHy can't you work in the US?

You've chosen some strange small towns. It IS strange for a university to hire an Asian to teach English (as a foreigner) - that alone should be a warning sign of what makes this university so in-need...

[Deats]

I worked with Asians who had US and Canadian passports. Nothing strange about it Zachary.

If your wife has a US passport, this should really be enough for companies to give her a go, regardless of where she was born. Especially if her English is good.

Having said that Chinese employers do like a white face... which does make it harder for her, but by no means impossible.

One issue you have is you are applying for jobs a couple of months too late.

[mike w]

[Deats]

The irony is Mike, listerialysin/zacharybilton etc etc has mentioned elsewhere that he lives in China AND has a child. I suppose he is married to a Chinese woman and therefore defends his choice to live there and raise a child there, even though he could move back to his home country, like he tells everyone else to do.

Just a sad troll, I think.

[The_Kong]