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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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 Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 4:00 pm Post subject: Passport for renewal, travel and hotels, possible? |
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My Residency Permit, in the passport, will expire on July 15. FAO told me that it takes 2-3 weeks to have the new stamp in the passport, and that the passport will be in the hands of the officials at that time. Looks like I will also lose the possibility to travel, as I had originally booked a return flight to my country for July 18.
Interested in taking a Chinese language course in Kunming during that time. I need advice on whether it is possible to indeed travel and take a course somewhere else in China during the time that your passport is up for renewal? I may need to stay in hotels during that time. Hoping to get around the hotel potential problem (no passport) by staying on the school premises lodging. I think booking tickets and actually travelling without a passport is also difficult. Not sure though, exactly how it all works.
Has anyone done all the above (or similar) without their original passport in hand?
Ghost in China |
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Markness
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 738
Location: Chengdu
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| Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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It all depends Mr. ghost. Some places have the ability to switch/renew within the country, and some people will tell you to go to HK, and some people will tell you that you need to go back to your country of origin. It is technically illegal however to be in the country if your visa has expired.
I think if your employer is in the process of doing all that jazz with the visa then you can skedaddle over to wherever you need to study. The problem of course is that if you are not actually in Kunming and need to travel there by airplane, train, or bus then you will need your passport (which your employer will have, correct?), this will put you in a difficult situation where you will probably have to stay in the city if they can process it even in the mainland. |
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Deats
Joined: 02 Jan 2015
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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Surely they need to renew it BEFORE it expires? So it should be done before the 15th, shouldn't it?
It's easy to travel without a passport - just make a photocopy of the main page. When I had to travel to embassies in other cities this is what I did. |
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Shanghai Noon
Joined: 18 Aug 2013
Posts: 589
Location: Shanghai, China
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| Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Show the Public Security Bureau your airplane ticket. They might be able to rush the visa for you. |
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fchris171
Joined: 28 Mar 2015
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 1:20 am Post subject: |
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I was told that a residence permit could be renewed 1 month before its expiry. Then on Friday my school took me down to the visa off to renew it (almost 2 months early) and they accepted it.
Yes they'll keep your passport for 3 weeks but you will be given a yellow slip of paper in exchange which is good for domestic travel, but just aske your school to get a move on and you'll easily renew it in time |
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jimpellow
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 913
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 1:32 am Post subject: |
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Well. by an international treaty, to which China is a signatory, they can hold your passport no longer than 5(?) days I believe, unless you are being investigated for a criminal matter. But as the Chinese honor nothing they sign, no point getting all legal about it.
When the bitching started after the last visa changes, China started to offer passports receipts to business people and such so they could travel domestically, enabling the bureaucrats to continue to sit around doing nothing until the stacks of passports start to teeter on their desks.
But as it sounds like you are traveling internationally, you are out of luck if I read you correctly.
You may want to gamble and play chicken. Inform the FAO that you have decided that going back home is more important than doing another contract. This may motivate the school to work the guanxi to get it done quicker. |
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listerialysin
Joined: 14 May 2015
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| They can hold your passport for however long YOU ALLOW THEM to hold it. Keep that in mind before trying to quote international treaties and so on. Those have nothing to do with procedures such as this and to which you agree. You have the choice to not hand over your passport. I can show you airport directions. |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 6:04 am Post subject: Re: Passport for renewal, travel and hotels, possible? |
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| ghost wrote: |
| My Residency Permit, in the passport, will expire on July 15. FAO told me that it takes 2-3 weeks to have the new stamp in the passport, and that the passport will be in the hands of the officials at that time. Looks like I will also lose the possibility to travel, as I had originally booked a return flight to my country for July 18. |
Contact the airline and see what the penalty is for making a change. Most air tickets allow for this depending on the conditions of your ticket.
| Shanghai Noon wrote: |
| Show the Public Security Bureau your airplane ticket. They might be able to rush the visa for you. |
They can do this, usually the renewal time will be down to one week if you've already purchased an air ticket home.
| fchris171 wrote: |
| I was told that a residence permit could be renewed 1 month before its expiry. Then on Friday my school took me down to the visa off to renew it (almost 2 months early) and they accepted it. |
This isn't true everywhere. In this city the PSB will normally only accept your passport one week before the current residence permit expires. And keep in mind that if your school has several foreign teachers who all need to renew around the same time then the school admin is going to want to do them all at once. This makes their job easier as they only have to make one trip to the PSB in July instead of seven or eight. This approach will be an advantage for some teachers and an inconvenience for others, but school admin people are on holiday too and they don't want to waste half of it sitting around the local police station doing paperwork.
| jimpellow wrote: |
| Well. by an international treaty, to which China is a signatory, they can hold your passport no longer than 5(?) days I believe, unless you are being investigated for a criminal matter. But as the Chinese honor nothing they sign, no point getting all legal about it. |
I'm curious which international treaty governs how long a local Chinese government office can hold a foreign passport for in order to renew a residence permit. The office where we renew residence permits is the same office that processes (among other things) Hong Kong visitor visas for locals and in summer they get pretty busy. Two-three weeks to renew a foreigner residence permit isn't unacceptable. We're always told to expect our passports back in three weeks but usually get them back in two. |
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jimpellow
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 913
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| listerialysin wrote: |
| They can hold your passport for however long YOU ALLOW THEM to hold it. Keep that in mind before trying to quote international treaties and so on. Those have nothing to do with procedures such as this and to which you agree. You have the choice to not hand over your passport. I can show you airport directions. |
Hate to be the bearer of reality, sha gua, but the receipt being used for visa applicants as a temporary passport was motivated in large part by foreign governments protesting the noncompliance on behalf of business interests. Hence, the treaty is applicable for the voluntary handover of passports for visa related matters. |
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Shanghai Noon
Joined: 18 Aug 2013
Posts: 589
Location: Shanghai, China
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 6:49 am Post subject: Re: Passport for renewal, travel and hotels, possible? |
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| 7969 wrote: |
| We're always told to expect our passports back in three weeks but usually get them back in two. |
When you get your receipt in Shanghai, it always has the due date printed on it. It always arrives on that day. For a short time period in 2013, Shanghai did that three week nonsense, but they have since reverted to one week. |
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Deats
Joined: 02 Jan 2015
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Most places where you apply for a visa take 5+ days. To get Schengen in Europe it can take a month. My wife's British visa took almost 2 months. These are supposed 'developed' countries, yet the bureaucracy is often worse than the other countries who are famous for bad bureaucracy. Same goes with America, the visas are BS to get.
The thing is, westerners don't realise this as they don't need to apply for such things. Western bureaucracy is probably worse than that in China and Russia nowadays. It's certainly easier, quicker and cheaper for me to get visas for China and Russia than it is for my wife to get Schengen and UK - even though she's married to a Brit.
You may as well enter 'Crufts' the amount of hoops they make you jump through in the West. (Not to mention the cost) |
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Shanghai Noon
Joined: 18 Aug 2013
Posts: 589
Location: Shanghai, China
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| Deats, that might be true, but it's not the issue we are discussing. Though western countries take months to process visa applications, they do not hold your passport for the duration. We are discussing giving up our passports while in a foreign country which is a very serious matter. |
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Deats
Joined: 02 Jan 2015
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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Erm, yes they do keep your passport when applying for the visas I mentioned. How else do your visas get into your passport? By magic?
In any country you should always carry a photocopy of your data page and your visa. You should never be carrying around the original copies. These should be in a safe place at home.
Do you really believe a hotel or train conductor will demand an original copy of your documents!?  |
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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 4:24 pm Post subject: you make a good point |
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| Quote: |
| Deats, that might be true, but it's not the issue we are discussing. Though western countries take months to process visa applications, they do not hold your passport for the duration. We are discussing giving up our passports while in a foreign country which is a very serious matter. |
You make a good point there. I worked in Saudi for seven years (2008-2014) and on the 'release day' (official day when teachers are relieved from their duties in the university) - 99% of teachers were in the airport (Dammam or Bahrain) that very same night.
In Saudi, among the teachers - there would have been mass protests....if teachers were prevented from traveling on the very first day that they were officially on leave - and in Saudi - the official leave days are known one year ahead of time.
Here in China - the situation is complicated for me, because I have a flight booked for the 18th of July to Europe - but my FAO told me recently that she will only deliver the passports (en masse with the other foreign passports) to the official police office (or passport office - not sure) on July 13th, and that it would take around 2-3 weeks to get the passport back.
This would take me up to August...but again not sure of the date...and not sure now about going home for just a few weeks....essentially - the projected 2 month vacation overseas has now been reduced to one month or less. It is something of a dilemma - because if I change the date - not sure which date to give the airline.
Ghost in China |
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Deats
Joined: 02 Jan 2015
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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It sounds like your school is a mess. This is nothing to do with Chinese law.
When I applied for a job where the contract ended on July 15th I specifically asked the question about contract renewal and how it would be affected with this finish date, rather than a standard 12 month contract. The FAO said they would start processing the documents in late May and they would be ready before I left for summer vacation (which actually started on June 30th).
Tell your FAO that you won't re-sign unless your documents are ready by July 17th and I will bet my life that all of a sudden it's possible to do this. FAO's will feed you whatever lies you are willing to believe, because it makes their job easier. The second you stand up for yourself, FAO's will do their job.
EDIT: I've never met a foreigner who gave up 3 weeks of their summer vacation just to sit at home and wait for their passport. Never.
Last edited by Deats on Sun May 31, 2015 5:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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