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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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 Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 2:27 am Post subject: |
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I snitched on a missionary type who took to holding classes in his apartment.
Students come first in my view. |
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Son of Bud Powell
Joined: 04 Mar 2015
Posts: 179
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| I'm still waiting for an answer, zb. I'd really like to know. |
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Shanghai Noon
Joined: 18 Aug 2013
Posts: 589
Location: Shanghai, China
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| Son of Bud Powell wrote: |
| zacharybilton wrote: |
I was the hiring authority at one school a few years ago and had 200+ applications in 2 years for job openings and entirely confirmed 11 submitted fake degrees and references on the resume.
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I'd love to know how you did this from China. If you used Verify (or one of the growing number of outfits that do background checks and have been given access to schools' databases) to determine the validity of the information supplied by the applicant, you'd spend a fortune (which I doubt you'd pay out of your pocket). Such companies won't authenticate a degree. They merely indicate if the applicant attended the school and if he graduated.
If you sent an inquiry directly to the applicant's school, you'd need credentials--- even a letterhead--- to prove that you are authorized to inquire (something that I doubt the school would give you). You'd also need a release from the applicant if you contacted the school's registrar directly.
If you went through the U.S. Department of State, you'd need the applicant's original degree to send to Washington, D.C. for inspection. Two-way postage alone would be prohibitive, and as in the case of the previous scenario, it would take a very long time to accomplish unless one used an express service. The Chinese Consulate in D.C. will authenticate degrees, and there are probably other in-country government agencies that perform the same service, but how willing are you to believe their opinion?
How did you check applicants' references? By email? What percentage of purported employers even responded? Did any of the former employers release information without the applicants' written consent? Did you call the applicants' employers in order to verify their information? Many times HR managers won't respond to unverifiable inquiries because they fear litigation.
Let us know. Thanks. |
Actually I believe Zachary here, but I am interested in the answer nonetheless. Sometimes it can be very obvious. At my first job, the HR told me that 90% of his applications had false information. One tell-tale sign of fake documents is when certificates from different parts of the world are printed on exactly the same cardstock and use the same ink tones. Some fakes can be compared to authentic ones if the school happens to have a scan of one on hand at a given time. |
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The_Big_White_Elephant
Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
I snitched on a missionary type who took to holding classes in his apartment.
Students come first in my view. |
You snitched on him simply for teaching classes in his apartment? Why? Dont lots of people do that? |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| The_Big_White_Elephant wrote: |
| Non Sequitur wrote: |
I snitched on a missionary type who took to holding classes in his apartment.
Students come first in my view. |
You snitched on him simply for teaching classes in his apartment? Why? Dont lots of people do that? |
They do, but they use a different "textbook." |
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| Shanghai Noon wrote: |
| Son of Bud Powell wrote: |
| zacharybilton wrote: |
I was the hiring authority at one school a few years ago and had 200+ applications in 2 years for job openings and entirely confirmed 11 submitted fake degrees and references on the resume.
|
I'd love to know how you did this from China. If you used Verify (or one of the growing number of outfits that do background checks and have been given access to schools' databases) to determine the validity of the information supplied by the applicant, you'd spend a fortune (which I doubt you'd pay out of your pocket). Such companies won't authenticate a degree. They merely indicate if the applicant attended the school and if he graduated.
If you sent an inquiry directly to the applicant's school, you'd need credentials--- even a letterhead--- to prove that you are authorized to inquire (something that I doubt the school would give you). You'd also need a release from the applicant if you contacted the school's registrar directly.
If you went through the U.S. Department of State, you'd need the applicant's original degree to send to Washington, D.C. for inspection. Two-way postage alone would be prohibitive, and as in the case of the previous scenario, it would take a very long time to accomplish unless one used an express service. The Chinese Consulate in D.C. will authenticate degrees, and there are probably other in-country government agencies that perform the same service, but how willing are you to believe their opinion?
How did you check applicants' references? By email? What percentage of purported employers even responded? Did any of the former employers release information without the applicants' written consent? Did you call the applicants' employers in order to verify their information? Many times HR managers won't respond to unverifiable inquiries because they fear litigation.
Let us know. Thanks. |
Actually I believe Zachary here, but I am interested in the answer nonetheless. Sometimes it can be very obvious. At my first job, the HR told me that 90% of his applications had false information. One tell-tale sign of fake documents is when certificates from different parts of the world are printed on exactly the same cardstock and use the same ink tones. Some fakes can be compared to authentic ones if the school happens to have a scan of one on hand at a given time. |
I find ZB's story ludicrous. For him to actually vet every applicant through reliable means would cost a fortune and take a lot of time. He either made up the story or he misrepresented himself as an authority and accepted or rejected applications based upon a hunch. If the latter is the case, he probably didn't last very long in the position.
Maybe Mr. Lysterialyson can answer. He's the same person.
Whaddya say, Listeria? |
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Shanghai Noon
Joined: 18 Aug 2013
Posts: 589
Location: Shanghai, China
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| Maybe you're right Bud, but I also think you overestimate the quality of the fakes people try to pass off. One time I saw a guy try to use a university's sweater as proof that he graduated. |
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RiverMystic
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 1986
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| 7969 wrote: |
| The_Big_White_Elephant wrote: |
| Non Sequitur wrote: |
I snitched on a missionary type who took to holding classes in his apartment.
Students come first in my view. |
You snitched on him simply for teaching classes in his apartment? Why? Dont lots of people do that? |
They do, but they use a different "textbook." |
If people are doing what they are doing of their own free will, why destroy them? Assuming NS's actions were motivated by the the neighbour conducting some kind of religious activity, the irony is obvious - imposing your worldview and moral standards on others would be the very thing that I suspect NS is opposed to, but the action taken emerges from the same mindset - I know best, eliminate the others.
If it's a legal issue, well, how many laws are broken every day on every street corner and in every office and home in China? There wouldn't be enough police on the planet to punish the offenders. Hell, while we are at it we might as well report anyone pushing into the line at the subway station.
Just mean spirited from NS, IMHO. Our parents grew up in countries where freedom came at a high price, and many immigrated from countries where freedom of expression and religion had to be fought for. And here we are now in China ratting on neighbours for practicing their religious beliefs. Sad. |
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54321
Joined: 11 Jun 2015
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| RiverMystic wrote: |
| 7969 wrote: |
| The_Big_White_Elephant wrote: |
| Non Sequitur wrote: |
I snitched on a missionary type who took to holding classes in his apartment.
Students come first in my view. |
You snitched on him simply for teaching classes in his apartment? Why? Dont lots of people do that? |
They do, but they use a different "textbook." |
If people are doing what they are doing of their own free will, why destroy them? Assuming NS's actions were motivated by the the neighbour conducting some kind of religious activity, the irony is obvious - imposing your worldview and moral standards on others would be the very thing that I suspect NS is opposed to, but the action taken emerges from the same mindset - I know best, eliminate the others.
If it's a legal issue, well, how many laws are broken every day on every street corner and in every office and home in China? There wouldn't be enough police on the planet to punish the offenders. Hell, while we are at it we might as well report anyone pushing into the line at the subway station.
Just mean spirited from NS, IMHO. Our parents grew up in countries where freedom came at a high price, and many immigrated from countries where freedom of expression and religion had to be fought for. And here we are now in China ratting on neighbours for practicing their religious beliefs. Sad. |
Have to agree. I don't believe in God, but I doubt those students were forced into the apartment at gunpoint, they were there on their own free will.
If a teacher is using the classroom to preach their religion that's not on since religion isn't the topic, but in his own private apartment? Everyone's there out of choice, deal with it. |
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asiannationmc
Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| If it's a legal issue, well, how many laws are broken every day on every street corner and in every office and home in China? |
I tired this on a cop once in the USA...did not play well there so no doubt that it would not translate any better here on
| Quote: |
| Just mean spirited from NS, IMHO. |
agree'd ...but the bigger question is why in hell's half acre did a poster come on a board seeking approval for being a "snitch". |
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