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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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 Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Before I came along, most applicants would have to go through the whole interview and recruitment process before realizing that the advertised 40 hour week is not really 40 hours at all, but at least 42.5 hours.
Now, everyone who applies who sees these posts will know this information beforehand.
This is progress.
I am more than happy to endure personal insult in order to secure this progress. |
42.5 instead of 40 is hardly earth-shattering. As santi points out, most teachers do some stuff outside of official hours, more or less depending on the season, usually. In fact, I guess you've spent considerably more than 2.5 hours on posting here.
Most new teachers spend more time preparing for class and marking work and everything else than more experienced ones. It's a very normal curve in this profession.
I once worked for a short time in a place where teachers refused to do anything outside of hours - it was a bitter, awful place where little learning or teaching was accomplished. |
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nightsintodreams
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558
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| Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| Didn't you work as a TEFL teacher in Qatar RSL? What happened with that? |
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ssjup81
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 664
Location: Adachi-ku, Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:57 am Post subject: |
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| rslrunner wrote: |
| nightsintodreams wrote: |
I'll tell you why. He likes to see his name on the Japan page, makes him feel like he's important.
Poor guy left his dream of being in Japan to come back to his mother's basement where he has resided since with no job.
It must have crushed him. Please, let's just ignore him before he takes over the whole forum with posts he has zero experience in. |
Before I came along, most applicants would have to go through the whole interview and recruitment process before realizing that the advertised 40 hour week is not really 40 hours at all, but at least 42.5 hours.
Now, everyone who applies who sees these posts will know this information beforehand.
This is progress.
I am more than happy to endure personal insult in order to secure this progress. |
I still think you're missing the point. This is not a Japan thing, this is a "teaching" thing. Most teachers work beyond their actual teaching hours cleaning or preparing for their lessons. It has nothing to do with the country, but it does with the actual profession itself. It's not like an office job where you go in, sit at your desk for 7-8 hours and go home, but I will admit, for "salarymen" or "OLs", this may be a problem in Japan. The workers putting in long, unpaid overtime because they don't want to leave before their boss does. That's problematic. Preparing for your classes outside of your work hours is different from jobs that require no preparation and is normal. You have to do lesson plans and whatnot. You can't do that DURING your lesson, now can you?
Students: What are you doing?
Me: Oh, I'm writing out my lesson plan for your lesson and all of my other lessons so that I don't go over 40 hours a week. I would be teaching you now, but...oh well....40 hours! Oh and I also don't plan on using any materials because I don't want to clean up and put everything away afterwards...don't want to go over that 40-hour mark, you know...
I can't help but wonder if you've ever done any kind of teaching, whether it be mundane Eikaiwa work or just plain old teaching or teaching assistant work. The younger the student, the more you have to do, imo. |
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questingbeast
Joined: 14 Jun 2015
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| This is not a Japan thing, this is a "teaching" thing. |
I don't even think it's a teaching thing- it's a having a job thing. I don't know anyone with a salaried job who doesn't sometimes stay an hour or two late or answer emails after dinner or work the occasional Saturday event. I don't think a normal person would see an advert for a 35/40 hour job and think it was anything other than short-hand for 'full-time'. |
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ssjup81
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 664
Location: Adachi-ku, Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| questingbeast wrote: |
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| This is not a Japan thing, this is a "teaching" thing. |
I don't even think it's a teaching thing- it's a having a job thing. |
I mentioned something like this earlier as well. I've done office work and I always went in early (professional thing to do, and I don't know about rsl, but I was taught that from an early age), but I never had to stay late, unless I was doing actual overtime.
| Quote: |
| I don't know anyone with a salaried job who doesn't sometimes stay an hour or two late or answer emails after dinner or work the occasional Saturday event. I don't think a normal person would see an advert for a 35/40 hour job and think it was anything other than short-hand for 'full-time'. |
Yeah, definitely. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| ssjup81 wrote: |
| This is not a Japan thing, this is a "teaching" thing. Most teachers work beyond their actual teaching hours cleaning or preparing for their lessons. It has nothing to do with the country, but it does with the actual profession itself. It's not like an office job where you go in, sit at your desk for 7-8 hours and go home, but I will admit, for "salarymen" or "OLs", this may be a problem in Japan. |
Yes, but isn't Aeon one of those schools where you are simply expected to follow a quite tightly-prescribed course, little or no deviation or creativity allowed? Which it shouldn't take more than oh, 15 minutes or so  each day to read up on and "prepare" for (and the time required would as anywhere overall decrease the more one became familiar with what was expected). So yeah, think of how much worse those Japanese in "proper" jobs have it. Mind you, if scrubbing the bogs or similar were part of the Aeon cleaning duties I'm not sure anyone would gladly do that for free LOL. |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:49 am Post subject: |
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If that's the case, why would anyone deign to work for Aeon?
Never mind the cleaning duties after work, the work itself is s recipe for boredom and resentment. |
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RM1983
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| TokyoLiz wrote: |
If that's the case, why would anyone deign to work for Aeon?
Never mind the cleaning duties after work, the work itself is s recipe for boredom and resentment. |
They pay quite a bit more than the others I believe. Ive seen some of their books as well and they seemed workable, quite a bit of variety in them at least. Not that far off your bog-standard Headway-type textbook.
Ive no idea how they get you to teach though. |
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ssjup81
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 664
Location: Adachi-ku, Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| fluffyhamster wrote: |
| ssjup81 wrote: |
| This is not a Japan thing, this is a "teaching" thing. Most teachers work beyond their actual teaching hours cleaning or preparing for their lessons. It has nothing to do with the country, but it does with the actual profession itself. It's not like an office job where you go in, sit at your desk for 7-8 hours and go home, but I will admit, for "salarymen" or "OLs", this may be a problem in Japan. |
Yes, but isn't Aeon one of those schools where you are simply expected to follow a quite tightly-prescribed course, little or no deviation or creativity allowed? Which it shouldn't take more than oh, 15 minutes or so each day to read up on and "prepare" for (and the time required would as anywhere overall decrease the more one became familiar with what was expected). So yeah, think of how much worse those Japanese in "proper" jobs have it. Mind you, if scrubbing the bogs or similar were part of the Aeon cleaning duties I'm not sure anyone would gladly do that for free LOL. |
You make a good point... Guess we just have to stick with ESID for this type of situation, eh? |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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If it's really anything like Headway, make that more like 15 hours of preparing (to summon the will to actually teach it rather than simply jump out of the window!).  |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:38 am Post subject: |
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Wow, the hamster and I agree about something!
Admittedly, I haven't touched a copy of Headway for over a decade; perhaps it has been improved.
But the late 90's and early 2000's Headway books were horrifying. |
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RM1983
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| fluffyhamster wrote: |
| If it's really anything like Headway, make that more like 15 hours of preparing (to summon the will to actually teach it rather than simply jump out of the window!). |
Well Im not a huge lover of Headway books etc, but I had imagined an Eikaiwa book to be a lot worse than the Aeon one I saw |
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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Make no mistake, my concern is not about extra working hours. My concern is the lack of consistency about the schedule.
If you are required to arrive 15 minutes early every day, then that should be part of the schedule. If you are required to clean at the end of each day, then that should be part of the schedule.
Aeon tells the world that the schedule is 40 hours a week. Then you go to an interview, and tell you that you actually have to be there earlier. Why not tell people this from the get-go?
At the same interview, they ask if you are willing to clean at the end of each day. I don't remember being told that this is above and beyond the schedule. Aeon does not include this responsibility as part of the schedule. Why not? Again, why not tell people from the get-go? |
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rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| rslrunner wrote: |
| If you are required to arrive 15 minutes early every day, then that should be part of the schedule. |
It seems that they do tell people. See here: http://www.aeonet.com/life-at-aeon/a-typical-day-at-aeon/
"11:45 a.m.
The school’s business hours usually start at noon. Teachers and staff generally arrive at the school fifteen minutes prior to their scheduled starting time. Lessons are scheduled to start from 12:00 p.m. and all staff work together to ensure that the school is up and running before the start of the business day. There is a five-minute meeting at the start of every day, which gives the manager an opportunity to go over the previous day’s business results and the current day’s schedule with the teachers and staff." |
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santi84
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, teachers expected to be at their class 15 minutes prior to the start, in order to prepare and discuss daily outcomes with their coworkers?
Outrageous... what has this profession come to? |
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