Job Discussion Forums

[Blingcosa]

In the last year or so, several schools have closed in my city. One an International School, one was a language mill, another did corporate training, and a large children's chain school pulled out of the city.

Now as I near the end of my contract, I am looking at jobs and salaries, and I think, although my salary has increased in the last 5 years, wages have remained the same across the board.

Japan used to be the country to go and teach English, but the market shrank, and wages haven't moved in over a decade. Then it was Taiwan, then South Korea. Taiwan moved most of its manufacturing to Mainland China. Korean salaries have stopped increasing, and China became the place to be.

It seems like there is a certain stage in a country's development, when industry really takes off, foreign corporations move in, the locals develop aspirations, and the ESL industry booms.

Labour prices have risen for locals in China, but there is little new opportunity here. Manufacturers are starting to build factories in cheaper countries. Will the ESL industry go with it?

These are not hard facts, just my own observations. Maybe I'm totally wrong. I know I can trust you guys to correct me. Please convince me I can stay in China for the rest of my tsingtao-swilling, baozi-munching, meinv-chasing life.

[jimpellow]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

I don't think it is a matter of demand. It still seems quite strong and is reported to be growing.

I would think that the increasing difficulties to retain and recruit ESL teachers is part of the reason. Not to mention the overall cost of employing them is much higher than before, mainly due to the high overhead of the social tax.

It seems that the online industry is exploding in China and that may be a reason too. I guess its possible too that the government closed down one or two illegally operating ones.

Hard to say where the industry will go as the government is so unpredictable. Before the changes over the last few years a government VIP announced that the upcoming changes would attract more teachers as China had a demand for 100plus thousand ESL positions and only 30 thousand filled positions. Now that a year has passed since all of the actual changes have settled, they have already managed to lose 30%.

I actually wonder when they really mangle it if they will attempt to basically nationalize ESL. That is how it was when I applied to teach in China in 1989 (then tank man suspended the program) and the powers-to-be in Wuxi intended to do that when I worked nearby eight years back.

It will be good for some of those on this list to toughen them up if they go that route. I foresee cuts in salary and ESL teachers living 6 to a room with no AC or heating. Morning reveille will be at 5am followed by calisthenics and running around the school carrying the Chinese flag. All will be worth it due to the free Chinese lessons.

So one way or another you will be set.

[hdeth]

With how horrible Chinese management skills are, I'm kind of surprised any business lasts here.

I think China still has a lot of room for growth. I'm not sure it will mirror what has happened in Japan, Taiwan, or Korea due to the enormous population difference. Also, China is just starting to get into more high tech areas. I think there are many years left here.

[GreatApe]

Interesting post, and you all raise some good questions.

I saw this on QQ International today:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2015-07/03/content_21169330.htm

The last bit on page 1 interested me most:

[Simon in Suzhou]

While salaries for ESL teachers have stagnated over the last 5 year or so, it's hard to make too many judgments on the industry based on a few anecdotal closings around you. Heck, the businesses on my block close and re-open with new, eager dreamers every 4 months. It has little to do with the economy or the market and A LOT to do with there being a whole lot of people who are crap at running a business.

The economy in China is at an interesting point right now. Things could nosedive or they could remain about the same. If there isn't a massive collapse, which I don't foresee as the govt will rig things and prop things up to keep it going, then there will be plenty of people with money who are eager to learn English.

I don't agree that there aren't business opportunities here for Chinese people because manufacturing may be going elsewhere. I'm not sure having cheap-labor factories is what drives the ESL market. Chinese people love to consume and there is a pretty strong middle class doing so now. It's a HUGE domestic market. Chinese people believe heavily in education as an investment for their future, and there is no shortage of people who want their kids to study abroad at some point. The only thing I see changing this is a massive anti-west turn by society because of international issues.

[GreatApe]

Simon in Suzhou wrote:

[Angel.Ro]

[kungfuman]

My school - a pseudo international school - is run by a group of investors that have no background in education or business management at all. My boss's sole claim to being a manager qualified at bossing foreigners is that he went to school in Canada for a couple semesters.

The school has the worst educational qualifications I have ever seen in my life.

Their motto seems to be is the top 9 out 10 priorities is to see how much they can rip the parents off for.

The students parents pay over $12000 usd a year for school and are totally cheated.

In all honesty if China had any educational standards this school should have been closed down.

[hdeth]

Hah, my school charges $30k+ per year and is in the same situation. Your boss could learn something from mine.

The parents do it primarily so their kids don't have to take the gaokao I think, and have more of a shot at getting accepted at a western uni. Maybe also just to get the kids out of their hair during the work-week.

Apparently every 4-5 years they get some curriculum designer to come in and organize things (starting that next year) but then the retention rate for teachers is so bad that it all kind of goes away within a couple of years and ends up basically as a giant training center.

[MESL]

China has 1.3 billion people. You will always have a job here. I'm not as concerned about the job market as I am the government response to the job market. As in other countries, government regulation has gradually increased. Credentials are higher and visa applications are under more scrutiny. When I came to China 12 years ago, a foreign teacher at a university in a medium sized town made 4000 yuan - twice my department chairman, more than the university president. Now, the same school is advertising 6500-7500 yuan. I'm not as concerned about salaries as I am inflation. A trip from that same town to the capital was 75 yuan, now 100. A carton of yogurt several years ago was 8 yuan, now 14.

[jimpellow]

[wangdaning]

[Angel.Ro]

[hdeth]

[jimpellow]