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rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
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 Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| rslrunner wrote: |
| rtm, please answer this simple question: does the work day begin at 12, or 11:45? |
The time that employees are paid for begins at 12. But, they are expected to be there before that, at 11:45. That seems to be what you have a problem with. I don't think that's dishonest at all. I, personally, wouldn't consider that 15 minutes part of the official "work day", even though I am supposed to be there. |
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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| rtm wrote: |
| rslrunner wrote: |
| rtm, please answer this simple question: does the work day begin at 12, or 11:45? |
The time that employees are paid for begins at 12. But, they are expected to be there before that, at 11:45. That seems to be what you have a problem with. I don't think that's dishonest at all. I, personally, wouldn't consider that 15 minutes part of the official "work day", even though I am supposed to be there. |
Right....
What about when you are cleaning your center after 9pm? That's not part of the official "work day" either? |
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jkozera
Joined: 09 Jan 2015
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| rslrunner wrote: |
| rtm wrote: |
| rslrunner wrote: |
| rtm, please answer this simple question: does the work day begin at 12, or 11:45? |
The time that employees are paid for begins at 12. But, they are expected to be there before that, at 11:45. That seems to be what you have a problem with. I don't think that's dishonest at all. I, personally, wouldn't consider that 15 minutes part of the official "work day", even though I am supposed to be there. |
Right....
What about when you are cleaning your center after 9pm? That's not part of the official "work day" either? |
that is just normal Japanese culture from what I understand. I actually asked if I would be later like 930 or so and they stated that I would never be later than 915, maybe earlier depending on how fast we all clean. |
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rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| rslrunner wrote: |
| What about when you are cleaning your center after 9pm? That's not part of the official "work day" either? |
Not really. Not enough to get upset about it. I usually stay at work at least 30 minutes after my last class anyway, putting things away, making notes about class, etc. A few minutes of cleaning wouldn't bother me. |
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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| rtm wrote: |
| rslrunner wrote: |
| What about when you are cleaning your center after 9pm? That's not part of the official "work day" either? |
Not really. Not enough to get upset about it. I usually stay at work at least 30 minutes after my last class anyway, putting things away, making notes about class, etc. A few minutes of cleaning wouldn't bother me. |
There are two reasons that this thread is 20 pages long:
1. People were unwilling to acknowledge that the schedule provided isn't the schedule.
2. I have been unwilling to let it go.
If Japanese culture dictates that one cleans after work, then the very least that should be done for the people who are new to Japanese culture is incorporate this required work in the schedule.
Just say the schedule is from 11:45 to 9:15. Be forthright. Be clear.
It shouldn't take mental gymnastics and rationalizations about cultural differences to justify contradictory and inaccurate information provided by the company.
I see the same lack of clarity and transparency in other aspects in how this company operates. In my view, unsurprisingly, all this needed to be addressed and brought to the surface. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Yes. An extra 30 minutes of work per working day is definitely worth 20 pages of argument. 
It's not cultural, btw. As pointed out earlier, teachers everywhere have duties that aren't defined in their contracts.
I'll be sure to tell our teachers that every time they have arrive early to start up the equipment needed and remain after class to shut down the equipment and lock up, they will need to write a 20-page argument  |
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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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For Pete's sake, this is not about a teacher's professional responsibilities! This is about telling the truth about a schedule that appears for all the world to see on a website.
A plea for transparency does not reject the notion of hard work and going above and beyond the call of duty. A plea for transparency honors hard work.
I keep hearing straw man's arguments, and I am not going to put up with it.
If there is 40 hours of scheduled work, you can't in good faith turn around and say, "Oh, we want to have you here 15 minutes early every day." That is not a cultural thing; that is revising the schedule in midstream!
You see this page???:
http://www.aeonet.com/life-at-aeon/a-typical-day-at-aeon/
There is nothing there about cleaning up after work. Why should it be there? Because you have to clean every freaking day! It is a deliberate omission; I can think of no justifiable explanation.
If it's not a big deal to clean, why not put that responsibility as part of a typical day on the website? Why all the games?
I am all for hard work and persistence. I think my posts prove that I am capable of both.
I am not for using information selectively, arbitrarily and selfishly. Aeon does not have the God-given right to push people around. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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We hired a teacher a couple of years ago to teach one specific course. He arrived exactly on time for each class - but then he still had to set up equipment and get organized. Class therefore effectively started 10 minutes late each time.
Didn't hire him again. |
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santi84
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| rslrunner wrote: |
For Pete's sake, this is not about a teacher's professional responsibilities! This is about telling the truth about a schedule that appears for all the world to see on a website.
A plea for transparency does not reject the notion of hard work and going above and beyond the call of duty. A plea for transparency honors hard work.
I keep hearing straw man's arguments, and I am not going to put up with it.
If there is 40 hours of scheduled work, you can't in good faith turn around and say, "Oh, we want to have you here 15 minutes early every day." That is not a cultural thing; that is revising the schedule in midstream!
You see this page???:
http://www.aeonet.com/life-at-aeon/a-typical-day-at-aeon/
There is nothing there about cleaning up after work. Why should it be there? Because you have to clean every freaking day! It is a deliberate omission; I can think of no justifiable explanation.
If it's not a big deal to clean, why not put that responsibility as part of a typical day on the website? Why all the games?
I am all for hard work and persistence. I think my posts prove that I am capable of both.
I am not for using information selectively, arbitrarily and selfishly. Aeon does not have the God-given right to push people around. |
There's nothing left but straw man arguments!
There is NO REASONING with you. Your years-long vendetta against AEON has left you with the inability to view this from any other viewpoint. Yes, rslrunner, you are right, and the rest of the world is wrong. Now move on in life before someone finds out who you are and you get blacklisted from the profession. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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Oh no! This isn't listed under the typical day, and what's worse, it closes with 'AT ALL TIMES'. Scandalous!! And I'm now worried that I'll be expected to sleep in the school at night, to prevent mice scattering crumbs. Or that I won't be able to scatter any myself as I enjoy a McD in the middle of class (I'm not willing to fit my meals in with prescribed mealtimes and eating areas, I'm a hungry human, not a cog in a machine!!!). Or something. Anyway, I am flustered and annoyed, and those are the most important things about (not) working anywhere!!!!
| Quote: |
YOUR SCHOOL
Many of our schools are right by train or subway stations, and oftentimes, they are in the station building or in one of the buildings adjoining the station. Others are located in shopping malls or department stores. Some schools are situated on two or three floors of a building. School size and layout vary depending on the location of the school and the number of students.
All our schools are quite compact, and since we do not have janitorial services, it is important for the staff to maintain the cleanliness of the school at all times. |
http://www.aeonet.com/life-at-aeon/your-school/
. |
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ssjup81
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 664
Location: Adachi-ku, Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:52 am Post subject: |
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| rslrunner wrote: |
For Pete's sake, this is not about a teacher's professional responsibilities! This is about telling the truth about a schedule that appears for all the world to see on a website.
A plea for transparency does not reject the notion of hard work and going above and beyond the call of duty. A plea for transparency honors hard work.
I keep hearing straw man's arguments, and I am not going to put up with it.
If there is 40 hours of scheduled work, you can't in good faith turn around and say, "Oh, we want to have you here 15 minutes early every day." That is not a cultural thing; that is revising the schedule in midstream!
You see this page???:
http://www.aeonet.com/life-at-aeon/a-typical-day-at-aeon/
There is nothing there about cleaning up after work. Why should it be there? Because you have to clean every freaking day! It is a deliberate omission; I can think of no justifiable explanation.
If it's not a big deal to clean, why not put that responsibility as part of a typical day on the website? Why all the games?
I am all for hard work and persistence. I think my posts prove that I am capable of both.
I am not for using information selectively, arbitrarily and selfishly. Aeon does not have the God-given right to push people around. |
Probably because it's common sense when it comes to a teaching job... |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| rslrunner is probably not cut out to be a teacher - hopefully s/he has moved on to jobs with more clearly defined timing (punch-clock jobs, I mean). |
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rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| rslrunner wrote: |
| If it's not a big deal to clean, why not put that responsibility as part of a typical day on the website? |
Because then they'd have to state that they require 42.5 hours of work per week, which might turn off potential applicants. We all understand that you want transparency, and we all agree that the hours add up to more than the 40 hours per week stated on the web site.
However, that doesn't bother most of us.
I suppose it is somewhat sad that a part of the teaching profession around the world is that we all expect to work more than the 40 hours per week that are typically indicated in contracts. But, that is the reality, and those of us who enjoy being teachers are wiling to do that. Your fight for adequate compensation for teachers and transparency in expectations is noble, but I think basing such a campaign on the 15 minutes of cleaning time at AEON is not the right place to start. |
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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:57 am Post subject: |
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| santi84 wrote: |
| rslrunner wrote: |
For Pete's sake, this is not about a teacher's professional responsibilities! This is about telling the truth about a schedule that appears for all the world to see on a website.
A plea for transparency does not reject the notion of hard work and going above and beyond the call of duty. A plea for transparency honors hard work.
I keep hearing straw man's arguments, and I am not going to put up with it.
If there is 40 hours of scheduled work, you can't in good faith turn around and say, "Oh, we want to have you here 15 minutes early every day." That is not a cultural thing; that is revising the schedule in midstream!
You see this page???:
http://www.aeonet.com/life-at-aeon/a-typical-day-at-aeon/
There is nothing there about cleaning up after work. Why should it be there? Because you have to clean every freaking day! It is a deliberate omission; I can think of no justifiable explanation.
If it's not a big deal to clean, why not put that responsibility as part of a typical day on the website? Why all the games?
I am all for hard work and persistence. I think my posts prove that I am capable of both.
I am not for using information selectively, arbitrarily and selfishly. Aeon does not have the God-given right to push people around. |
There's nothing left but straw man arguments!
There is NO REASONING with you. Your years-long vendetta against AEON has left you with the inability to view this from any other viewpoint. Yes, rslrunner, you are right, and the rest of the world is wrong. Now move on in life before someone finds out who you are and you get blacklisted from the profession. |
This is a ridiculous and unacceptable threat.
You can't get blacklisted from an entire profession simply for pointing out information that is demonstrably false.
Again, the webpage says, "An Aeon's teacher's responsibilities include a 40-hour workweek consisting of a standard number of 25 teaching hours, with the remaining hours spent on office responsibilities. Office responsibilities include, but are not limited to interviewing prospective students, recommending texts, counseling students, completing progress reports, and greeting students in the lobby."
This is false. Period. There is no mention of the daily meeting nor of the daily cleaning that is an inherent part of the job.
If people want to reconcile the contradiction between the above statement and the actual reality of the schedule by saying that it doesn't matter, that is his or her right.
But as long as this false information continues to appear on the website, I will point it out.
This is not a threat. It is a fact. |
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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| rtm wrote: |
| rslrunner wrote: |
| If it's not a big deal to clean, why not put that responsibility as part of a typical day on the website? |
Because then they'd have to state that they require 42.5 hours of work per week, which might turn off potential applicants. We all understand that you want transparency, and we all agree that the hours add up to more than the 40 hours per week stated on the web site.
However, that doesn't bother most of us.
I suppose it is somewhat sad that a part of the teaching profession around the world is that we all expect to work more than the 40 hours per week that are typically indicated in contracts. But, that is the reality, and those of us who enjoy being teachers are wiling to do that. Your fight for adequate compensation for teachers and transparency in expectations is noble, but I think basing such a campaign on the 15 minutes of cleaning time at AEON is not the right place to start. |
Obviously I disagree with you on many different levels about this, but one of them is related to expectations for being a teacher.
You see, the additional responsibilities and work hours that are mandated above and beyond the 40 hours originally promised have nothing to do with teaching .
Attending a morning meeting every day (which most teachers do not do) and cleaning the classroom after hours has nothing to do with methodology, pedagogy, lesson planning, or education. They have everything to do with the interests of the company.
Again, I have no problem with these responsibilities. Just don't say that the work adds up to 40 hours a week.
You should not say work is 40 hours a week, in print, for prospective employees if that is not your intent.
If it doesn't bother you that the company is deliberately misleading people, and someone tell me if that is not the case, fine.
But nobody should have to be mislead in the first place.
The offending page with the deliberate inaccuracy is STILL online:
http://www.aeonet.com/life-at-aeon/expectations-and-responsibilities/
You want me to stop talking about this? Simple solution: Aeon must stop providing inaccurate information for prospective employees. I don't think this is an unreasonable request. |
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