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A.K.A.T.D.N.
Joined: 12 Jun 2004 Posts: 170
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Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:25 am Post subject: Mixed Blood |
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I heard it today, slip out of a Chinese girls mouth. "I went to Turkey. . .there were a lot of blonds there. . .mixed blood." It makes me wonder if this but doesn't carry over from the other comments made about "Now That I'm in Taiwan." What does "mixed" mean?
There's no such thing. Blood can't be "mixed." We've all the same blood, as donating blood will testify, although it depends on what "type" of blood you are to whom your blood will be donated. Now, if she meant the word "mixed" to mean real and actual blood being tainted, or impure, by racial mix, then this is just another BIG FAT RACIST REMARK!!
Whereas, if she meant "mixed" as in being "nationalities" or "different races" perhaps it was okay. But then again, it still hints at the fact that as a Chinese she thinks her "race" is pure, and that the other four foreigners sitting around her at the table were in some way or another a hybrid-race inferior to the "true-bloods" that she, as a Chinese, is so proud of being? Hmm, it makes me wonder if Fortigurn and Pop Fly aren't but half-breeds. |
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Fortigurn
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 390
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Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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You've taken a tiny comment from a conversation, repeated it completely out of context, and attributed to it all manner of foul implications which are complete speculation.
It's just an expression, for goodness' sake. Are you over here to look for every opportunity that you're being slighted and abused, or are you here to learn about another culture? |
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wood
Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 202
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Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:05 pm Post subject: Re: Mixed Blood |
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A.K.A.T.D.N. wrote: |
I heard it today, slip out of a Chinese girls mouth. "I went to Turkey. . .there were a lot of blonds there. . .mixed blood." It makes me wonder if this but doesn't carry over from the other comments made about "Now That I'm in Taiwan." What does "mixed" mean?
There's no such thing. Blood can't be "mixed." We've all the same blood, as donating blood will testify, although it depends on what "type" of blood you are to whom your blood will be donated. Now, if she meant the word "mixed" to mean real and actual blood being tainted, or impure, by racial mix, then this is just another BIG FAT RACIST REMARK!!
Whereas, if she meant "mixed" as in being "nationalities" or "different races" perhaps it was okay. But then again, it still hints at the fact that as a Chinese she thinks her "race" is pure, and that the other four foreigners sitting around her at the table were in some way or another a hybrid-race inferior to the "true-bloods" that she, as a Chinese, is so proud of being? Hmm, it makes me wonder if Fortigurn and Pop Fly aren't but half-breeds. |
The idea of someone having mixed blood surely isn't unique to Taiwan. |
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MTurton

Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 107
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:45 am Post subject: |
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It's just an expression, for goodness' sake. Are you over here to look for every opportunity that you're being slighted and abused, or are you here to learn about another culture? |
What if that other culture contains quite a bit of slighting and abusing of other cultures? Fortigurn, the Chinese are a lot more racist than we are, and they are a lot more open about it. If I had a nickel for every person who said "Nimen waiguo ren..." You foreigners as if all foreigners were the same. The pretty much divide the world into US and THEM, and descent is the deciding factor. Everyone overseas of Chinese descent, although they are a foreigner, is considered Chinese in some way under the laws here......
I suspect "mixed blood" was simply a poorly-chosen translation for a common term in Chinese. Just like today, my student wrote :" Management was impressed with his deeds" when "Management.....achievements" was a more correct rendering.
Many locals do not realize that such terms are offensive and that westerners are often sensitive to that.
Vorkosigan |
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wood
Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 202
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:52 am Post subject: |
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MTurton wrote: |
Quote: |
It's just an expression, for goodness' sake. Are you over here to look for every opportunity that you're being slighted and abused, or are you here to learn about another culture? |
the Chinese are a lot more racist than we are, and they are a lot more open about it. If I had a nickel for every person who said "Nimen waiguo ren..." You foreigners as if all foreigners were the same. |
When you say 'we' I assume you mean 'women waiguo ren'? Many white foreigners are treated quite well here. |
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gemair
Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 14
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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well, i can understand how derogatory using the word "mixed" can be when the speaker suffers a superiority complex from being of "pure" blood.
but please don't fix the word itself with a negative connotation. at least in western terms, it's not outrageous to go telling people you or someone you know has mixed parentage. if the subject comes up, i always say that i am mixed.
i wish you would have clarified-- were the blonds the chinese girl commented upon complete foreigners, or half-chinese, half-western?
if you aren't really sure as to the context or intent, it's a bad reflection on yourself that you are getting so angry and yourself putting down the general chinese population and the girl in question. |
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WorkingVaca
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 135
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 3:06 pm Post subject: The old "reverse discrimination" charge |
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AKATDN I'd be willing to bet you were listening to too much AM radio down there in Texas, with the constant theories of liberal conspiracies and reverse discrimination. THIS IS NOT THE U.S. You are the foreigner here, and unlike immigrants to the U.S., you are in the enviable position of being from the world's dominant culture: white, American, English-speaking. If anything, you will soon find that Asians have an inferiority complex and sometimes express it in odd ways, usually complimentary. This is NOTHING like the way dark-skinned foreigners are treated in the U.S., as low-lifes threatening to overrun the country and suck off the sytem. So why don't you step back and take a look at the big picture: you have an American passport and are in the very fortunate position of being a rep of dominant western culture. You can easily come and go into most Asian countries with little hassle. Instead of spending your first few weeks trying to force your identity on people and accusing them of RACISM when they find your foreign behaviors a little odd, you should concern yourself with finding a job, learning to speak Chinese and trying to make friends who can give you insight into appropriate behavior in Taiwan. Humble yourself. You're in a new, unfamiliar environment and already going nuts with paranoia. It would be a shame for you to run from here before understanding how things work and learning something about YOURSELF in the process.
RELAX. OPEN YOUR MIND. GO WITH THE FLOW. IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT YOU AND YOUR COWBOY HAT. |
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Taylor
Joined: 24 Oct 2003 Posts: 384 Location: Texas/Taiwan
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Dear WorkingVaca,
You have written one of the most interesting and insightful posts I have EVER read on Dave's ESL cafe.
You seem to have a knack for backing away from a situation and really "calling it like you see it."
When I return to Taiwan in the future, I will keep your comments in mind.
Thanks.
Taylor
Texas/Taiwan
P.S. Regarding inappropriate translations, I once had a high school student who wrote "My father is a drug dealer." I SWEAR! It seems his intention was to state that his father is a "pharmaceutical salesman." |
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Fortigurn
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 390
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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MTurton wrote: |
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It's just an expression, for goodness' sake. Are you over here to look for every opportunity that you're being slighted and abused, or are you here to learn about another culture? |
What if that other culture contains quite a bit of slighting and abusing of other cultures? |
So what if it does? What is that to me?
Quote: |
Fortigurn, the Chinese are a lot more racist than we are, and they are a lot more open about it. If I had a nickel for every person who said "Nimen waiguo ren..." You foreigners as if all foreigners were the same. The pretty much divide the world into US and THEM, and descent is the deciding factor. Everyone overseas of Chinese descent, although they are a foreigner, is considered Chinese in some way under the laws here...... |
Pardon me for saying so, but so what? I don't see that as an excuse to read every little tiny remark as a personal attack.
Quote: |
I suspect "mixed blood" was simply a poorly-chosen translation for a common term in Chinese. Just like today, my student wrote :" Management was impressed with his deeds" when "Management.....achievements" was a more correct rendering.
Many locals do not realize that such terms are offensive and that westerners are often sensitive to that.
Vorkosigan |
I suspect you are totally correct here. |
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Fortigurn
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 390
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Taylor wrote: |
Dear WorkingVaca,
You have written one of the most interesting and insightful posts I have EVER read on Dave's ESL cafe. |
Definitely agree. But Pop Fly is still right up there for me.  |
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MTurton

Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 107
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 2:08 am Post subject: |
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If anything, you will soon find that Asians have an inferiority complex and sometimes express it in odd ways, usually complimentary. |
Asians DO NOT have an inferiority complex. Do not mistake the deference and compliments you receive from locals for their actual feelings. That is just the way they handle certain kinds of foreigners and nothing more. Deferring to perceived status IS NOT an admission of an inferiority complex, but an automatic cultural practice.
Vorkosigan |
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MTurton

Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 107
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 2:10 am Post subject: |
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wood wrote: |
When you say 'we' I assume you mean 'women waiguo ren'? Many white foreigners are treated quite well here. |
No, wood, many white foreigners think they are treated quite well here. Big difference.
MTurton |
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MTurton

Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 107
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 2:15 am Post subject: |
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Pardon me for saying so, but so what? I don't see that as an excuse to read every little tiny remark as a personal attack. |
<shrug> The poster's comment was that the attack was not personal, but general. Given the context of widespread and ingrained Chinese racism against foreigners, suspicion of racism is probably always justifiable. However, in most cases, it is still better to follow the dictum that what can be explained by stupidity should not be explained by maliciousness. As I said, this looks like an honest translation foul-up in at least one sense. The real question is, should we regard the original phrase hwun hsieh erh as racist?
MTurton |
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wood
Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 202
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Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:02 am Post subject: |
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MTurton wrote: |
wood wrote: |
When you say 'we' I assume you mean 'women waiguo ren'? Many white foreigners are treated quite well here. |
No, wood, many white foreigners think they are treated quite well here. Big difference.
MTurton |
I happen to think that they ARE treated quite well here, at least in Taipei. They're paid better than locals and often less is expected of them. If they can speak a few words of Chinese, people fawn over them. Are you saying that they're actually not treated well here?
I'm not trying to contradict you, I'm just trying to better understand what you mean. I know that there are people who won't rent to foreigners and there are people who think badly of foreigners. However, I believe that foreigners--especially--white ones are cut a lot of slack here. And what about the 'we'? You didn't mean 'women waiguoren' did you? I think you did. How is that different from when locals refer to us as 'nimen waiguoren'?
A lot of foreigners here are simply too sensitive. And who can blame them? Most white foreigners have never experienced life as a minority. Here in Taiwan they may get a taste of what it's like, but their exalted status, in many cases, distorts the reality faced by many true minorities living all over the world. |
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MTurton

Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 107
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Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:53 am Post subject: |
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I happen to think that they ARE treated quite well here, at least in Taipei. They're paid better than locals and often less is expected of them. If they can speak a few words of Chinese, people fawn over them. Are you saying that they're actually not treated well here? |
Well, we both actually mean white foreigners, since dark-skinned foreigners don't fall under this rubric.
I don't know if foreigners are treated well here. Certainly, there is a widespread superficial deference to foreigners, and lots of guys get action here who would never get it in the States.
The bushiban system is kind of an exception to Taiwan in many ways, a little floating reality where foreigners are desired, where businesses are generally fronted, if not run by, females, and where English is spoken by all. It resembles Taiwan the way Friends resembles a real-life apartment of six marginally employed basket cases. Hence what goes on in Bushibans doesn't really reflect Taiwan until something goes wrong. So in that way, you're right. There is a group of foreigners who are relatively well treated (Chinese teacher pay is moving up, though. Some of my students make $500 an hour teaching English, close to native speaker pay).
On the other hand, just wait until you work for a place that isn't part of this floating reality, like one of those universities where the foreigners all get canned because they are more popular than the local teachers. Or consider that we have to have medical exams every year to get the work permit, but our Taiwanese colleagues do not. Two years ago another department's chair and a teacher tried to get me to change a student's grade. They had taught her and could have changed their own grades for her, but then the black mark would have been on their record. So I was picked because I was the foreigner....There's lots of stuff like that going on. But then, we slime out of lots of committee work because we can't write Chinese. Perhaps it all comes out in the wash.
<shrug> My own experience is that a lot of people who think they are getting treated well are actually getting screwed, and aren't aware of it. All you can do is wait, until the scales fall from their eyes based on some experience they had.
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How is that different from when locals refer to us as 'nimen waiguoren'? |
There's no racist intent in that. I don't divide the world into two groups of "foreigners in Taiwan" and everyone else, unlike the Chinese, who maintain a strong Insider/Outsider dichotomy.
MTurton |
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