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Better to apply for university teaching job or private?
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Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> China (Job-related Posts Only)

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isitts

Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Posts: 193
Location: Korea

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:11 am Post subject:

And you wrote this…(also this month)
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=111509

Jmbf wrote:

I can't comment on the quality of the ONTESOL program, but I can confirm that no matter the quality of the TEFL program you take (even CELTA or Trinity), it won't put you in the running for the EDB NET scheme. Technically, those qualifications are enough, but in reality the competition is too intense.

Your realistic options are to work in a language centre or kindergarten (salary usually between 15 - 25K / month) while continuing your studies. As others have mentioned, your quality of life will probably take a hit on that salary as the cost of living in HK is high.

So, not sure myself why you think the OP has good chances in Hong Kong.

Jmbf

Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:11 am Post subject:

isitts wrote:

…’cause this is a conversation you were in on the HK forums…this month, no less.
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=111404

TeacherTim wrote:

I would say go for it, but bear in mind a few of things.

1. You will need to pay for your own accommodation, which is expensive and not exactly value for money. No help with travelling either.

2. If you don't have a PGCE/PGDE/QTS then you'll be stuck on the bottom points of the pay scale, which might not be worth it in the long run.

3. Last point, although they seem to be advertising for NETs everywhere, in reality there are only a handful of vacancies and probably about twenty applicants per school, so don't build your hopes up. Apply, nonetheless. You have nothing to lose.

Jmbf wrote:

In general I agree with TeacherTim. Unless you are entitled to a dependency visa / RTL / ROA then your teaching options are limited with only a TEFL certificate.

...and the OP in this thread doesn't even have a TEFL certificate.

That's true - but don't take my comments out of context. His teaching options are limited WHEN compared with those who have the right to work freely here, but it is still possible to earn decent money even with his qualifications. I run a chat group for tutors / teachers here, plenty of them still earn 30K + / month even with very basic teaching qualifications. Why just last week a guy secured a job at a kindergarten for 22K / month and he had no teaching experience and just a basic TEFL.

As for housing options, there is flat sharing, living in a village house out in the New Territories or out on one of the outlying islands etc etc. So there are ways to keep your costs of living under control.

However I would recommend that he take the time to get a TEFL qualification whatever path he chooses.

Jmbf

Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:16 am Post subject:

isitts wrote:

And you wrote this…(also this month)
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=111509

Jmbf wrote:

So, not sure myself why you think the OP has good chances in Hong Kong.

Yes, I do believe his standard of living will probably take a hit living in HK. But he stated that his aim was to maximise his income and I still believe HK would provide a better chance to do that then in China.

isitts

Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Posts: 193
Location: Korea

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:38 am Post subject:

Jmbf wrote:

That's true - but don't take my comments out of context. His teaching options are limited WHEN compared with those who have the right to work freely here…

They’re not out of context. Your comments are addressed to people who, like the OP here, doesn’t have the right to work freely there. The only difference is that the OP on the other thread had 4 years teaching experience, a degree in linguistics, and a TEFL certificate. And that OP is being told they have limited options.

Jmbf wrote:

…but it is still possible to earn decent money even with his qualifications…

What qualifications? He’s taught fitness and has no TEFL training. Teaching fitness can count for something, but it’s still entry level…even in a non-competitive market.

Jmbf wrote:

However I would recommend that he take the time to get a TEFL qualification whatever path he chooses.

No one’s arguing that. But the OP seems to lack time and money…primarily money.

Jmbf

Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:47 am Post subject:

thunder_god wrote:

I've only found like 4 job postings from this site for teaching in HK, 2 of them asked for a female instructor, the other two jobs did not provide any housing and after paying for rent and higher living expenses compared to China, the salary ended up being a lot lower then the teaching positions in China. Also the only job I found that was 20,000+ HKD figure required a celta which I don't have. So far I've only seen an ad for 14,000 and 10,000 HKD with my qualifications which isn't even enough to cover my living expenses.

Also I'm looking at the rental prices for a small 1 bedroom apartment, and they are around 10000-12000 HKD. If you can provide me a job posting that pays 20,000 HKD and provides free housing I would gladly apply for it right now.

Between the relevant Facebook teacher groups, other HK teaching forums and jobs websites I see several new teaching positions become available every day.

thunder_god

Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 65

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:01 am Post subject:

isitts wrote:

thunder_god wrote:

I have no job right now…

thunder_god wrote:

Worse comes to worse, I'm just going to….do the…2hr commute each way to work downtown.

This is confusing.

thunder_god wrote:

I have about 1k in savings in the bank right now…

Yeah, I don’t think that’s enough to start you off. I really can’t say how much you’d need for China, but in the countries I’ve taught in, I usually start out with 2k, and that’s not including the plane ticket. Most of the jobs I’ve done don’t require a housing deposit up front. One job I did in Taiwan required 2 months’ rent up front. I heard in China, it can vary.

As for this…

thunder_god wrote:

This leaves me in a very bad situation, since I have no job right now, my parents don't know about my school situation, and I need to find a place that is month to month and not a 1 year long lease. So its job hunting for a temporary job in Toronto, job hunting for teaching gig in China, and apartment hunting for a month to month place, and figuring out how to tell my parents about my school situation as well. God damn it!

…I would tackle these in the order of importance.

1. Find a stable place you can stay. Call friends or family. Do this first.

From here you have a couple options (in no particular order, but I would choose one of these paths)

Option A: Endgame China
2a. Find a temporary job that lets you save the required amount of money to start out in China.*
3a. Apply and go to China.

* If you want/plan to stay with your parents, explain to them your idea of teaching in China and how working there might get you out of your problems. If you can convince them it’s a good plan, perhaps they can loan you some money to help get you started.

Option B: Endgame Stay Put
2b. Find an actual job in your field as you mentioned earlier and slug it out in Canada.
3b. When you can afford it, move out of whoever’s place you managed to stay…unless you’re good friends and can stay with them long term.

OP, just a little more disclosure, I was in a similar situation when I was your age, and it was rough. First and foremost, you gotta find people you can rely on. I ended up staying with a good friend (after my dad advised me to go stay in a homeless shelter), I got my bearings, applied for work in the city, got the job while simultaneously lining up a house-sitting gig for some friends of friends. I soon lost that job (as it was seasonal, and they didn’t bother to tell me), and….eventually applied to work overseas. And here I am. All that while, though, I was receiving financial assistance from my parents (albeit, minimal and with reluctance). When I told them I was applying to work overseas, they were supportive.

I don’t know your parents, so not sure how things would pan out if you told them, but I suspect they’ll find out one way or another eventually. I think if you give them a plan of how you’re going to get out of your mess, they may be supportive of it. And while, as I said, I don’t think you can pay back your loans in two years, you can pay them off in a decent amount of time by working overseas.

You just have to decide if that’s the better option or if staying in Canada is the better way to do it.

But first, find a place to stay. Everything else is secondary. Good luck!

Sorry, I didn't see this post until now. I'm starting to get really discouraged right now with teaching in China. The Chinese in China are racist as f&*^, even to their own kind. They call Europeans "Gwailo" and "laowai", rip them off, and talk shit behind their back, meanwhile discriminate and treat their asian counterparts abroad when looking for work like dirt. Its bad enough with all the BS scams going on there, but this $hit just takes the cake. I've been applying to jobs in Toronto regularly and go to the employment centre several times a week to have them review each resume and cover letter. Right now it seems either option isn't even viable. If I stay here, it'll take me months to even get a part-time minimum wage job and with that I can forget about paying off my student debt as I would barely be able to survive on that salary. I remember applying to work at subway about 6 months back and I didn't even get a reply back. Like seriously, making frigging sandwiches for minimum wage and they still wouldn't even hire me even though I pretty much opened up my whole schedule for them.

My room mate springing up that manipulative crap last night added further insult to injury.

I mentioned the 2hr commute time each way because my parents live in the suburbs so it takes about 2 hrs to get downtown. I'm living downtown right now where most of the jobs are, so if I end up not being able to secure a job I will be forced to move back in with my parents and spending 4 hrs a day on commuting alone.

I ended up bargaining with my room mate today and told him I'll move out by the end of October for sure if he can still honour our lease for 1 more month to give me a little more time to deal with my job situation. I'll transfer the lease over to his brother. I'm going to give myself about 1-2 more months at this, and then I'm just going to let my parents know about my situation unless I can secure employment sooner.

I think I might start looking for jobs in either korea or Taiwan now.

Last edited by thunder_god on Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:09 am; edited 1 time in total

Jmbf

Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:04 am Post subject:

isitts wrote:

The OP in the other thread was aiming to get into the EDB NET scheme. He already had a reasonable teaching job in Japan but he was ambitious for more. My comments were tailored towards his situation - I didn't believe making the move to HK would be a significant improvement for him given his particular situation. He was hoping to earn 40K+/ month which was not realistic given his experience and qualifications. So being 'limited' to earning approx 25K / month probably wouldn't be worth his while to make the move.

That's not the same scenario as in THIS thread. I'm comparing entry level earning incomes in China vs HK. Being 'limited' to 25K / month is not an issue here when looking at entry level salaries in China. If my goal was maximising income I'd take 20K HKD in HK over 7K RMB in China anyday.

wangdaning

Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:16 am Post subject:

thunder_god wrote:

Don't give up so easily. For some humor, I have not been called laowai in a year or so, seems to have fallen out of fashion in my area. Just today though, as me, my wife, and our son were headed out to the bank some only granny exclaimed (in all her toothless glory), "xiao laowai." Ha, born in China, half Chinese, and still laowai. HAHAHAHAHA. I then said xiao xiaonei to her grandchild, they were baffled. My wife and I just laughed. I am no longer a target of stares or random laowai calling, it is my half Chinese son, never been out of China, who gets it (irony at its finest). At this point I must say that, unlike many mixed white/Chinese children, he looks extremely white. People at times mistake my wife as a nanny, to which she replies go ---- yourself.

I say don't take it so bad because I have been in an odd situation slightly similar. I studied Chinese at university and when it came time to look for jobs I naturally looked at companies needing Chinese skills. I am white, so pass. People will hire a Chinese person who speaks English because they assume they have good Chinese. They do not wish to check the Chinese ability, well, cause they are Chinese and checking would cost money. Kind of sad, ruined my day for a while, but I don't think it was everyone, just a handful of idiots. Same in China, not all employers act that way, and you have a shot if you keep looking. It is a little late for universities, but if you can get a decent contract with a private school it might be a door in. I work with a CBC, his English is not perfect, but he is respected (guess cause management are not Chinese?).

Anyway, keep your head up.

Jmbf

Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 4:37 am Post subject:

thunder_god wrote:

Sorry, I didn't see this post until now. I'm starting to get really discouraged right now with teaching in China. The Chinese in China are racist as f&*^, even to their own kind.

Unfortunately this attitude is quite common throughout Asia. Definitely you will have to work a bit harder to overcome this form of prejudice but it can be done. I know several ABCs and CBCs who have experienced this in some form over their teaching careers. With persistence they prevailed, so don't give up!

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