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How difficult is it to teach English abroad?
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thunder_god



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:05 am    Post subject: How difficult is it to teach English abroad? Reply with quote

I haven't run into this issue until today, but I had one student who had a real stick up his a$$ who couldn't even understand a normal question I asked him (like what rank is he in the military) demand that I teach him idioms like just out of the blue. It was my first time teaching this guy and within 5 minutes he was trying to tell me what to teach him when I asked him to tell me about his family. I was caught off guard by this and within 10 seconds, this guy ends our chat. I was thinking what a real douche bag. I've taught close to 40-50 students since I started this online teaching job like 2.5 weeks ago but it was my first time experiencing this.

This got me thinking, how difficult is it teach English abroad in a classroom? My understanding was that you teach them basic oral English, reading, and writing skills. Do your students ask you questions like teach me idioms or some random stuff like that? Also how often do your students challenge you and try to control the session and how do you handle those situations?
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The customer is always right.
It is not wise to ask a Muslim student questions about his family and female relatives.

It might be an idea to travel a bit to widen your horizons before committing to a career in TEFLing.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thunder_god wrote:
I had one student who had a real stick up his a$$ who couldn't even understand a normal question I asked him (like what rank is he in the military) demand that I teach him idioms like just out of the blue. It was my first time teaching this guy and within 5 minutes he was trying to tell me what to teach him when I asked him to tell me about his family. I was caught off guard by this and within 10 seconds, this guy ends our chat. I was thinking what a real douche bag.

Frankly, based on your comments about that student, I wonder if you'll even have the patience and tact to facilitate a class full of learners. I suggest you definitely look into a TEFL course that includes supervised/assessed teaching practice with real students (preferably the CELTA).

and wrote:
This got me thinking, how difficult is it teach English abroad in a classroom? My understanding was that you teach them basic oral English, reading, and writing skills. Do your students ask you questions like teach me idioms or some random stuff like that? Also how often do your students challenge you and try to control the session and how do you handle those situations?

TEFL is all about the students' learning needs. But it's unclear what the instructional goal/purpose is for your online tutoring program --- if you follow prescribed curricula (as in a classroom situation) or instructional assistance based on each learner's specific needs. Either way, you need to be flexible and adaptable in order to incorporate their interests into the lessons.

By the way, even though you teach online, did the company provide you with any training on how to teach, especially managing certain situations?


Last edited by nomad soul on Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
My understanding was that you teach them basic oral English, reading, and writing skills.


This is far too narrow.

There are all levels of students; some are very high level and 'basic' English most definitely isn't what they need or want. As others have noted, we teach what they need; I personally think idioms are a waste of time, but if a student demands them, then it's their call, if it's a private lesson. And scot's right - asking about a student's family may well be culturally taboo.

Some students can be very challenging - Russians or Germans, for example, often have a very strong knowledge of English grammar (likely better than that of many EFL teachers) and you need to really know your stuff to have any credibility with them. And they won't employ you if you're not credible, I can assure you.

Entry-level jobs in many parts of the world involve teaching businesspeople in their places of work. These students have very serious agendas for exactly how they want to spend their time and energy - it's not up to the teacher in many cases to decide what they 'need.' This is also true for the many English for Special/Specific Purposes classes, which focus on test-taking or English for specific jobs.

The advice to get an on-site certificate is solid. You've got a great deal to learn about teaching.
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thunder_god



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
thunder_god wrote:
I had one student who had a real stick up his a$$ who couldn't even understand a normal question I asked him (like what rank is he in the military) demand that I teach him idioms like just out of the blue. It was my first time teaching this guy and within 5 minutes he was trying to tell me what to teach him when I asked him to tell me about his family. I was caught off guard by this and within 10 seconds, this guy ends our chat. I was thinking what a real douche bag.

Frankly, based on your comments about that student, I wonder if you'll even have the patience and tact to facilitate a class full of learners. I suggest you definitely look into a TEFL course that includes supervised/assessed teaching practice with real students (preferably the CELTA).

and wrote:
This got me thinking, how difficult is it teach English abroad in a classroom? My understanding was that you teach them basic oral English, reading, and writing skills. Do your students ask you questions like teach me idioms or some random stuff like that? Also how often do your students challenge you and try to control the session and how do you handle those situations?

TEFL is all about the students' learning needs. But it's unclear what the instructional goal/purpose is for your online tutoring program --- if you follow prescribed curricula (as in a classroom situation) or instructional assistance based on each learner's specific needs. Either way, you need to be flexible and adaptable in order to incorporate their interests into the lessons.

By the way, even though you teach online, did the company provide you with any training on how to teach, especially managing certain situations?


We were provided with nothing. As far as I know, we're suppose to just chat with them and also the job requires no certifications whatsoever, just the ability to speak English. If I had a teaching certification, I wouldn't waste my time on their earning $5 to chat for 30 minutes. Funny you should mention asking about their family being taboo. On the right side bar during our sessions, if I remember correctly there is a suggestion from Cambly asking you to talk to the student about their family along with other everyday topics. Also expecting me to just come up with idioms out of thin air in a few seconds is quite unrealistic especially if its my first time tutoring the guy without knowing what he wants and then having him getting pissed off that I didn't answer him right away.
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thunder_god



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scot47 wrote:
The customer is always right.
It is not wise to ask a Muslim student questions about his family and female relatives.

It might be an idea to travel a bit to widen your horizons before committing to a career in TEFLing.


The guy wasn't muslim though. He told me he was a white guy. Even with my muslim students they all don't have any problems telling me about their family.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so the experience you're getting through this 'job' isn't going to help you much in an actual real ESL/EFL context.

(Many muslims are 'white guys,' btw).

Possible follow up questions to the request for idioms:

Ok, tell me more. What kinds of people do you expect to be talking with? What are the purposes of your communication in English? How do you feel idioms will be valuable to you? Great - I'll prepare for the next time. Now, can we talk about ....? What else would be interesting and useful for you?
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thunder_god wrote:
nomad soul wrote:
By the way, even though you teach online, did the company provide you with any training on how to teach, especially managing certain situations?

We were provided with nothing. As far as I know, we're suppose to just chat with them and also the job requires no certifications whatsoever, just the ability to speak English. If I had a teaching certification, I wouldn't waste my time on their earning $5 to chat for 30 minutes.

This job has absolutely nothing to do with teaching --- you're essentially paid to be an online conversation partner.

Why not look into volunteering a couple of hours a week as a classroom assistant at one of your local refugee/ESL literacy organizations? It will give you some classroom time alongside experienced teachers as well as opportunities to observe them teaching. It doesn't take the place of bona fide teacher training (i.e., CELTA/TEFL cert courses), but you'll have a better sense of what teaching general ESL is about
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thunder_god



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
thunder_god wrote:
nomad soul wrote:
By the way, even though you teach online, did the company provide you with any training on how to teach, especially managing certain situations?

We were provided with nothing. As far as I know, we're suppose to just chat with them and also the job requires no certifications whatsoever, just the ability to speak English. If I had a teaching certification, I wouldn't waste my time on their earning $5 to chat for 30 minutes.

This job has absolutely nothing to do with teaching --- you're essentially paid to be an online conversation partner.

Why not look into volunteering a couple of hours a week as a classroom assistant at one of your local refugee/ESL literacy organizations? It will give you some classroom time alongside experienced teachers as well as opportunities to observe them teaching. It doesn't take the place of bona fide teacher training (i.e., CELTA/TEFL cert courses), but you'll have a better sense of what teaching general ESL is about


Which is why I don't see why this dude was throwing a hissy fit over me not being able to instantaneous teach him idioms which he probably wouldn't even have been able to understand anyways. If he wanted a real teacher with proper qualifications, he shouldn't have been a cheapskate and hired one in Saudia Arabia instead.

Ya I looked into volunteering at the local library as an ESL tutor or something for work experience but they wanted a minimum of 6 months or something. I'm not sure where I'll be in a months time from now yet alone 6 months. I'm also in a tough situation at the moment with my finances which would explain why I'm doing this online teaching gig. I'm just trying to figure out a way of getting myself out of this mess that I'm in right now.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thunder_god wrote:
nomad soul wrote:
This job has absolutely nothing to do with teaching --- you're essentially paid to be an online conversation partner.

Why not look into volunteering a couple of hours a week as a classroom assistant at one of your local refugee/ESL literacy organizations? It will give you some classroom time alongside experienced teachers as well as opportunities to observe them teaching. It doesn't take the place of bona fide teacher training (i.e., CELTA/TEFL cert courses), but you'll have a better sense of what teaching general ESL is about

Ya I looked into volunteering at the local library as an ESL tutor or something for work experience but they wanted a minimum of 6 months or something.

Not as a one-on-one ESL tutor trying to figure things out on your own, but as a classroom assistant helping teachers in the classroom during structured lessons to see how they manage unexpected questions while keeping the class on task. If you're unable to volunteer any of your time, ask if you can at least observe a variety of teachers and how they interact with the students. By the way, many employers don't count volunteer teaching as valid experience.

And stop referring to that online conversation gig as teaching. Razz
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santi84



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are always going to be people who think they know better, and that goes for any profession. I recently received a complaint from a student at a CLB 2 (equivalent to A1) who thought my class was too easy. He can't use simple past in the most basic form (I was), but thought he belonged in the CLB 5-7 class (that's pre-university, B2+ or C1, I think).

He's not malicious, but perhaps just overconfident in abilities. When teaching adult education (ESL or not), you have to be wary of self-esteem and ego. It happens. Appropriately explaining to students your reasons for this/that is a skill.

The hardest skill in teaching, in my opinion, is being able to swiftly adapt to changes (tech fail, jerk student, whatever). I might have interjected a comment about "biting the bullet" Wink Such a military-related idiom could have been useful to peak his attention back.

But if you have no training or experience, it is natural to not have quick ideas in such challenging situations. In a 1:1 tutoring session, the client's goals are always #1. It is not the same as a class.


Last edited by santi84 on Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:12 pm; edited 15 times in total
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santi84



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thunder_god wrote:
nomad soul wrote:
thunder_god wrote:
nomad soul wrote:
By the way, even though you teach online, did the company provide you with any training on how to teach, especially managing certain situations?

We were provided with nothing. As far as I know, we're suppose to just chat with them and also the job requires no certifications whatsoever, just the ability to speak English. If I had a teaching certification, I wouldn't waste my time on their earning $5 to chat for 30 minutes.

This job has absolutely nothing to do with teaching --- you're essentially paid to be an online conversation partner.

Why not look into volunteering a couple of hours a week as a classroom assistant at one of your local refugee/ESL literacy organizations? It will give you some classroom time alongside experienced teachers as well as opportunities to observe them teaching. It doesn't take the place of bona fide teacher training (i.e., CELTA/TEFL cert courses), but you'll have a better sense of what teaching general ESL is about


Which is why I don't see why this dude was throwing a hissy fit over me not being able to instantaneous teach him idioms which he probably wouldn't even have been able to understand anyways. If he wanted a real teacher with proper qualifications, he shouldn't have been a cheapskate and hired one in Saudia Arabia instead.

Ya I looked into volunteering at the local library as an ESL tutor or something for work experience but they wanted a minimum of 6 months or something. I'm not sure where I'll be in a months time from now yet alone 6 months. I'm also in a tough situation at the moment with my finances which would explain why I'm doing this online teaching gig. I'm just trying to figure out a way of getting myself out of this mess that I'm in right now.


In anglophone countries, many libraries offer ESL courses. I teach ESL courses that are hosted in our county library. Sometimes my classes are large multilevel, and it is always nice to have a volunteer facilitate the conversation with higher-ability students (my lower-ability students usually need a more hands-on experienced approach).

I started this way as a volunteer. Now, I get to design and run my own classes. Never went abroad Very Happy
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In the heat of the moment



Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 393
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe his low rank really rankles, maybe he thought you were being rude when asking him about his family (cultural differences), maybe he won't hire a private tutor because then he'd actually have to get up off of his a&@$ and leave the house.

Or maybe he's just an obnoxious to$$er, if you teach enough students you'll come across a few; it's part and parcel of teaching. Learning techniques to deal with them, a bit like dealing with hecklers when on stage, is also a part of teaching and with enough practice you'll be able to issue a withering retort without going too far.
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buravirgil



Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

santi84 wrote:
Such a military-related idiom could have been useful to peak his attention back.
Fer cryin' outloud
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

santi84 wrote:
I might have interjected a comment about "biting the bullet" Wink Such a military-related idiom could have been useful to peak his attention back.

Santi, I believe you mean pique his attention. Wink
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