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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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 Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:03 am Post subject: |
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| hdeth wrote: |
| They'll get good grades and basically all but a few of the worst students get into western universities. |
All but a few?
Can you cite a number? And concede it's anecdotal?
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| If they're good students they get an ultra-modern campus, pretty decent teachers, and a lot of leeway to study what they want. The top students are lavished with attention and get a pretty amazing education, particularly in science and math. |
Money does buy nice things.
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| At a true international school the bottom half would probably flunk out and the top students would be bored out of their mind with the slow pace of western schools so... |
Your argument would be better served with a more thorough survey of IB schools, but I agree some programs successfully serve a niche while others warrant Spiral's suspicions precisely because standards aren't established.
No? |
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hdeth
Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 583
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| buravirgil wrote: |
| hdeth wrote: |
| They'll get good grades and basically all but a few of the worst students get into western universities. |
All but a few?
Can you cite a number? And concede it's anecdotal?
| Quote: |
| If they're good students they get an ultra-modern campus, pretty decent teachers, and a lot of leeway to study what they want. The top students are lavished with attention and get a pretty amazing education, particularly in science and math. |
Money does buy nice things.
| Quote: |
| At a true international school the bottom half would probably flunk out and the top students would be bored out of their mind with the slow pace of western schools so... |
Your argument would be better served with a more thorough survey of IB schools, but I agree some programs successfully serve a niche while others warrant Spiral's suspicions precisely because standards aren't established.
No? |
I think agreed on all points.
It is a very small number of students who do not get into western unis here. I think single digits (out of around 500 students who graduated last year) but don't know the exact figures. There is much speculation and rumor about how some of the students manage it but they do. And quite a few get into very good schools...UC Berkeley and the like....way more than I would have thought.
Definitely not saying the school is perfect...far far from it...but I can understand why it's popular with rich Chinese parents. |
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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This discussion has become quite disturbing.
Has anyone bothered to learn what's really going on in U.S. universities regarding racial quotas? The Asian quotas affect not only resident citizen applicants but foreign Asian applicants as well.
Asians have been hit especially hard by the quotas through the years. This article from The Atlantic Magazine (December 26, 2014) cites Harvard as well as University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (Ivy League vs Kudzu League). What is occurring at these two universities are indicative of what is occurring throughout the U.S. at most large campuses. Though the article is now nine months old, the situation still exists, and litigation has not yet begun, so it is unlikely that there has been any turnaround in the situation.
I followed the IB link provided earlier in this discussion and learned (from the website itself) that there are only sixteen English language international schools in all of China who are affiliated with this program.
Form your own conclusions. |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| OhBudPowellWhereArtThou wrote: |
| This discussion has become quite disturbing. |
May scales never cease to fall from my eyes...
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| Asians have been hit especially hard by the quotas through the years. |
Through the years? Absolutely. But, presently:
_University__%_
Harvard. . . . . 16
Yale. . . . . . . .17
Princeton. . . . 18
MIT. . . . . . . . 23
UCLA. . . . . . . 34
UCBerk . . . . . 40
CalTech. . . . . 42 The 2010 Census counted more than 17 million Asian Americans, or 5.6% of the U.S. population (and 5.5% of U.S. adults ages 18 and older)
The Asian-American population grew faster than any other race group from 2000 to 2010 (46%) and its numbers roughly quadrupled from 1980 to 2010.(Pew Research)
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| Form your own conclusions. |
It's a tricky topic. Which aspect? |
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Buravirgil,
I scrolled through the incredibly dense website that you linked to in order to find an article that might reveal the statistics you quote. I couldn't find the article or the statistics, but it doesn't matter for two reasons.
1. Your use of statistics in this discussion is faulty.
2. I find every exchange on your part to be quite unpleasant, shallow, and reeking with a pathological need to be proven right at all costs. (When I can understand your responses, that is).
I hope that you don't mind when I don't respond to you again in the future.
Have a pleasant day. |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| OhBudPowellWhereArtThou wrote: |
| I hope that you don't mind when I don't respond to you again in the future. |
After not having responded when exactly? 
Oh, you've responded, if only to make an ad hominim attack.
My use of statistics?
How insufferable! |
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wendell7
Joined: 21 Mar 2011
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| PM sent |
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PYT
Joined: 28 Oct 2010
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:41 pm Post subject: Re: ESL Question |
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| Angel.Ro wrote: |
Hey, just a quick question for the teachers here. The consensus is that Uni jobs and public school jobs are a lot better than private centres, but is it common to land one of those jobs as your first ESL position in China? Or is it generally the case that you need to start at a private centre to get a year under your belt and meet contacts before you can move onto the better jobs?
Thanks! |
You definitely can, but it's a bit trickier for newcomers (especially ESL newcomers) just cause they don't know the ins and outs of the ESL industry in China. The private training centers tend to hold your hand a bit more (orientation, introductory training, support staff, etc etc) so it does make it easier.
In my experience with public universities, aside from a meeting/dinner the week before class, you are pretty much left to fend for yourself. For places that don't have an apartment for you, it might be up to you to find an apartment for yourself (which is very daunting for someone new to China).
Nevertheless, to answer your actual question, yes a decent number of people take public universities as their first ESL jobs and I am confident you can find those jobs too (you are doing the right thing researching here at Dave ESL). It's up to you to weigh the pros and cons. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:01 am Post subject: |
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There's a job offer checklist thread somewhere.
It's the contributions of many.
Work your way through it and you'll most of the way there. |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| buravirgil wrote: |
Absolutely. But, presently:
_University__%_
Harvard. . . . . 16
Yale. . . . . . . .17
Princeton. . . . 18
MIT. . . . . . . . 23
UCLA. . . . . . . 34
UCBerk . . . . . 40
CalTech. . . . . 42 The 2010 Census counted more than 17 million Asian Americans, or 5.6% of the U.S. population (and 5.5% of U.S. adults ages 18 and older)
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Now, try going to Berkeley and watching protests about how white people discriminate in the admissions of minorities. Complete and utter .......... I had to deal with that for the four years I was there. The most ironic part is that Asians in the Bay Area also discriminate in the job market, hiring other Asians, or family and friends or friends family. Yet, ask a Bay Area resident where discrimination comes from and it will most likely be white people. |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:46 am Post subject: Re: ESL Question |
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| Angel.Ro wrote: |
Hey, just a quick question for the teachers here. The consensus is that Uni jobs and public school jobs are a lot better than private centres, but is it common to land one of those jobs as your first ESL position in China? Or is it generally the case that you need to start at a private centre to get a year under your belt and meet contacts before you can move onto the better jobs?
Thanks! |
I think getting into a public job would be fine. PYT mentions some downsides (or hiccups), but if you contact some current teachers, work out the level of cooperation, you might find it is very easy to get into it. Plus, there is always this forum for advice if you find yourself lost. If you have a few other FTs willing to give you a few pointers it definitely will make your life easier. Language centers might give more support, but they are also a lot more demanding. Meaning from day one it is gogogo. Easy for some to be burnt out within a week. |
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