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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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 Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:09 am Post subject: |
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The OP (Sonnytron) made it clear in one of his early posts, that he has a specific background and doesn't have many options.
Be supportive or point out ways he can avoid risk, but don't bore on about things he is aware of just to score points. |
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mattyko40
Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 37
Location: Taipei
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Dozens? No. 50,000 to 180,000. I think there is like 180,000 protests and about 50,000 riots. They spend 770 billion rmb on riot gear and social stability.I'm tired and just know it's a lot and the USA warns its citizens. The amount of riots should increase, possible dramatically, this year depending on worsening economic conditions. With that being said- no riots are not the most important safety issue and I never said they were. Just one of a bunch that can get you hurt or in jail if the cops think you're involved.
10k is a good number , but unrealistic for most that come. Realistic should be a few grand, as fines and plane ticket can run that much.
Is a realistic option to go on the other side of the planet with no way to get back? I should be supportive of that? Anyone can work at walmart for $9-10 an hour and save a grand or so. I suppose by such logic I should be supportive of someone who wants to play Russian roulette. It's risky behavior and shouldn't be "supported". There has to be at least 50 better options in the USA. |
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mysterytrain
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| sonnytron wrote: |
The costs I more or less expect to need:
Cell phone fund (sim card, activation, initial month of service)
Toiletries (tissue, soap I enjoy using, tea)
Bus fund (to go to town)
Emergency flight home. I have $600 (flight to/from is $589).
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589 USD for a oneway flight from Nashville to China is pretty damn good. I paid a little less than 750 USD each for two tickets (for my wife and myself) from Texas to Chongqing in late August, and that ticket (on Delta / China Eastern) beat the next cheapest by more than $100. Which airline are you flying on?
Is tea a "toiletry"? I never thought of it that way.
I agree that starting a new job when coming from a far away home country, like the U.S., is hard financially. In my case, we would have made things much easier on ourselves if we had transferred directly from my previous job in Indonesia to China, but I hadn't been "home" in two years and my wife had never been there to meet most of my family, so it seemed necessary that we go. My former school paid for my ticket back to the U.S. as promised in my contract, but of course I paid my wife's ticket out-of-pocket, as well as our expenses (minus rent, we stayed with family and friends) for a month-long stay, plus two one-way tickets to China. All of that, combined with paying for two Chinese visas, my wife's US visa, medical checks, plus our start-up and survival costs for the first forty days in China have eaten into our savings from the last four years, "big time". Fortunately the new job here pays well enough that once I get the first salary payment in a few weeks (minus deductions for the health checks in China, health insurance, and even our residence permits), I should be able to build those savings back up pretty quickly. (Is it "normal" for an FT to pay the cost of a residence permit, by the way? In my previous job in China, I didn't have to pay for this)
Anyway, I think from the sound of things you will probably be okay, though it is always better to have a bigger financial cushion.
Last edited by mysterytrain on Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mysterytrain
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| sonnytron wrote: |
Is it weird that I'm waiting for the FAO to approve my visa] but I haven't talked to anyone at the actual school since my first interview?
I want to ask logistical questions like:
Will I be able to move into my apartment as soon as I arrive?
What's the day that I should plan to be in the city before my first days of class (October 1st)?
My recruiter was on my ass to get my medical done, get all my documents ready because she needed to submit them to the school for the FAO. Ever since then, she's just been like, "Let's wait for the FAO to send the visa documents" to whatever I ask her. No matter what I say, she says "Don't worry, you don't start until 10/1, wait for the FAO".
But I don't want to wait until a week before I fly there to figure out all the hiring details.
I asked my friend who's an NIT student to connect me to a teacher there and he did. The teacher gave me the number to the foreign teacher master and she also gave me the name of the person in charge of hiring foreign teachers. Does it look bad if I go over my recruiter's head to speak to these people? Should I just chill out? Is everything I've said is happening very common during a recruiter hire? |
The FAO does not approve your visa. The local government authority in China approves the application from the school wishing to hire you, and issues the documents which are sent along with the invitation letter from the school, requesting that a consulate or embassy approve your visa. (it seems there are four documents in all, at least in my case there were). The Chinese embassy or consulate in the U.S. (in your case) is the authority which actually approves and issues your Z visa... if you understood this in the first place, and / or feel that I'm just parsing your words, please forgive my correction.
Having read the rest of the thread, I have to say this: It's September 14th, your contract starts on Oct. 1st, and you haven't yet received the documents to apply for your Z visa, nor have you had any contact directly with anyone in the school itself who deals with the foreign teachers. This, I do find a bit troubling, and I think you'd be well-advised to try to contact the school post-haste by the means provided to you and ask what's going on with the process, recruiter be damned. I suppose it's good that you haven't actually bought your ticket yet, as this very preferably should only be done after you have your Z visa in hand. But two and a half weeks away from start date and you haven't got the docs to apply for the visa is really cutting things close.
In my view, you would want to arrive in the city at least three or four days before your start date, at a bare minimum, but it looks like that may not be possible in this case. We arrived a week before my start date at my school, and that was barely enough time to get "acclimated" and settled in a bit. Your apartment certainly should be ready for you to move in at least a few days before you start, though of course there is no guarantee of this, especially if you haven't heard anything directly from the school itself. |
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sonnytron
Joined: 03 Sep 2015
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| mysterytrain wrote: |
| sonnytron wrote: |
Is it weird that I'm waiting for the FAO to approve my visa] but I haven't talked to anyone at the actual school since my first interview?
I want to ask logistical questions like:
Will I be able to move into my apartment as soon as I arrive?
What's the day that I should plan to be in the city before my first days of class (October 1st)?
My recruiter was on my ass to get my medical done, get all my documents ready because she needed to submit them to the school for the FAO. Ever since then, she's just been like, "Let's wait for the FAO to send the visa documents" to whatever I ask her. No matter what I say, she says "Don't worry, you don't start until 10/1, wait for the FAO".
But I don't want to wait until a week before I fly there to figure out all the hiring details.
I asked my friend who's an NIT student to connect me to a teacher there and he did. The teacher gave me the number to the foreign teacher master and she also gave me the name of the person in charge of hiring foreign teachers. Does it look bad if I go over my recruiter's head to speak to these people? Should I just chill out? Is everything I've said is happening very common during a recruiter hire? |
The FAO does not approve your visa. The local government authority in China approves the application from the school wishing to hire you, and issues the documents which are sent along with the invitation letter from the school, requesting that a consulate or embassy approve your visa. (it seems there are four documents in all, at least in my case there were). The Chinese embassy or consulate in the U.S. (in your case) is the authority which actually approves and issues your Z visa... if you understood this in the first place, and / or feel that I'm just parsing your words, please forgive my correction.
Having read the rest of the thread, I have to say this: It's September 14th, your contract starts on Oct. 1st, and you haven't yet received the documents to apply for your Z visa, nor have you had any contact directly with anyone in the school itself who deals with the foreign teachers. This, I do find a bit troubling, and I think you'd be well-advised to try to contact the school post-haste by the means provided to you and ask what's going on with the process, recruiter be damned. I suppose it's good that you haven't actually bought your ticket yet, as this very preferably should only be done after you have your Z visa in hand. But two and a half weeks away from start date and you haven't got the docs to apply for the visa is really cutting things close.
In my view, you would want to arrive in the city at least three or four days before your start date, at a bare minimum, but it looks like that may not be possible in this case. We arrived a week before my start date at my school, and that was barely enough time to get "acclimated" and settled in a bit. Your apartment certainly should be ready for you to move in at least a few days before you start, though of course there is no guarantee of this, especially if you haven't heard anything directly from the school itself. |
Well I got an answer for why I haven't heard anything. The ministry of foreign affairs has gotten my paperwork and the foreign teaching department is working with them to get my hiring letter and approval done. The issue they're having is with the "two years post graduation" requirement, which seems to be the hugest barricade recently.
They said that they're confident they can get the approval so I'm going to guess they're doing some voodoo magic that they're already accustomed to doing, to get the approval through.
The friend I made (who's an undergraduate) connected me with an English Professor (not the same department but knows the department), she contacted their hiring manager, confirmed that I am indeed in their paperwork and they are indeed working on my application and they'll have an answer soon.
Now I'm nervous that the FAO might not accept me because of my degree being December 2014, despite the fact that I'm in my late 20's. |
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sonnytron
Joined: 03 Sep 2015
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| mattyko40 wrote: |
Dozens? No. 50,000 to 180,000. I think there is like 180,000 protests and about 50,000 riots. They spend 770 billion rmb on riot gear and social stability.I'm tired and just know it's a lot and the USA warns its citizens. The amount of riots should increase, possible dramatically, this year depending on worsening economic conditions. With that being said- no riots are not the most important safety issue and I never said they were. Just one of a bunch that can get you hurt or in jail if the cops think you're involved.
10k is a good number , but unrealistic for most that come. Realistic should be a few grand, as fines and plane ticket can run that much.
Is a realistic option to go on the other side of the planet with no way to get back? I should be supportive of that? Anyone can work at walmart for $9-10 an hour and save a grand or so. I suppose by such logic I should be supportive of someone who wants to play Russian roulette. It's risky behavior and shouldn't be "supported". There has to be at least 50 better options in the USA. |
Okay I'm done being nice to you because:
1) You are extremely short-sighted and unreasonably negative. You're negative just to BE negative. You just like to be the naysayer/Devil's advocate to try to flex your proverbial "knowledge muscle".
2) From your responses, you're an internet conspiracy theorist. You probably believe in the Illuminati and 9/11 being an inside job. I think you probably need some sort of medical assistance.
3) You are clearly mining Google for information to try to prove yourself right. I, too, can Google.
The United States has over 4x the rate of murder per 100,000 inhabitants every year, than China does. Chicago Illinois, alone, has more deaths by homicide in one year than the entire country of Japan. It approached surpassing Canada's entire homicide count as a single city.
And that's just civilian homicide by another civilian.
Another staggering figure? In the first 24 days of 2015, deaths by police gunfire in the United States surpassed the number of deaths by police gunfire in the United Kingdom.... In the past 24 years.
Over 10% of the people shot by police were unarmed.
Also, most of the riots you're referring to take place in certain controversial areas of China, such as: Xinjiang province, due to hostilities between Han Chinese and the Muslim community, due to discrimination and social injustice tensions. Other riots take place in cities like Beijing, and foreigners usually only get hurt at about the same rate as regular people do. Wrong place wrong time. I grew up in Southern California, I know how to stay out of trouble. When I see in the news that things are going bad, I'm not going to take a late night trip to the markets alone without a means of protection.
Risk is something I've been dealing with my entire life, why do you think I made THIS post? Sometimes people can't get ahold of the amount of money that's recommended to make things happen, so they try to make up for it by researching ways to make sure their money can survive them.
Someone going to China to teach English at a University, who waits until they get their Z-visa before leaving, who knows TWO locals in the same city, along with an SO's parents who also happen to be very successful that specifically told said SO, "Tell him if things go bad, we'll help him, give him our WeChat and phone numbers", who also knows a handful of locals in Shanghai which is a short train ride away, who also has experience surviving in horrible circumstances like being homeless, unemployed for months and finding ways to make ends meet and stretch my income, is a MUCH less risky person if they go with under a grand in pocket, than someone who's as paranoid and negative as you going anywhere in the world with a fortune.
Hell, I don't even know how you can make it from your plane to a taxi cab with how much you hate those violent, bloodthirsty mobs of racist murdering Chinese barbarians.
I have resources other than money. And some times, those resources can be worth a LOT more than having money in your pocket. I am merely coming here because none of the locals I know are FT's and I wanted advice from FT's. This entire post, is part of my preparation and readiness and I've learned a lot from it (with the exception of your words). |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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IMHO No more feeding the troll Sonny.
You have the moral high ground - leave it at that.
Best
NS |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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I am with you except point #2. I think you miss the mark there. Let him be a hater, but don't throw others under the bus, too. As you continue on, you are giving more validation to point #2.
China is not dangerous at all, and the police are not out to get anyone (really different, I come from California too, lived in Oakland before I came here). I have been asked for ID here once, and it was because I befriended some guys at a late night bbq place. Apparently, one of them was wanted  The young officer asked to see my passport, I said no, I don't have it. He asked a few time, no ID shown and he pretty much just gave up, even though we were speaking in Chinese. I would have been pinned to the floor for public intoxication and hand-cuffed, jailed, or worse.
Just my own opinion, wish you well. |
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mattyko40
Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 37
Location: Taipei
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:37 am Post subject: |
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You're done being nice? You questioned my education, insulted me personally, misquoted me, lied about what I said... I make a couple comments and you act that way. Chinese love Americans who are done being nice and carry "means of protection". You sound like someone who has probably punched 5 different people in the face in your adulthood.
Now you have another list? 1. personal insult 2. personal insult 3. personal insult. I attacked your plan and instead of making any sort of logical defense you attack me. One minute you have a fund one minute you don't. One minute you couldn't get home from a couple hours away next you will make it 12k miles with no money. In one sentence your worried about buying western products- $5 medicine and then $1300 computer. I said before you asked a question and you should probably give some idea of where you are. It is obviously a mile away from a grand. What makes you think a plane ticket will be $589 when you need one?
Wow staggering figures, I admitted that violent crime is worse in the USA. I could easily point out more and less violent countries to make an even less relevant point. What does Japan, Canada or UK have to do with anything? What's funny is that your argument goes way beyond irrelevant, and into easily reversible. You make the point of supposedly government homicides and use the UK as an example? Lets change that and make it China, and then stretch it out over a longer time line like 70 years to normalize the numbers. The most liberal estimate is that cops killed a thousand people a year in the USA for possibly no reason. So 70,000 vs 50 million? Ohh since we are using liberal numbers for USA cops let's go with conservative numbers for the Chinese govt. and say 10 million. I'm glad you introduced that framework to the convo. What is that 150x more than the USA. Brilliant argument
Hey look at your next point- there are riots now! You're wrong thinking most are out west. Many but not most. You think watching the news will let you know when things are going bad? lololol. Come on that is just funny!
I don't care why you made the post, as I stated earlier, I don't care what you do as you're a lost cause. A 1000 other people have read this and probably a hundred of them are newbs. They deserve to at least understand the risks. You also do not have respect for your own country or China by not being prepared.
I don't understand your next paragraph? You know a guy who Knows a homeless guy that you plan on being?
"Hell, I don't even know how you can make it from your plane to a taxi cab with how much you hate those violent, bloodthirsty mobs of racist murdering Chinese barbarians." When did I say any of this? I posted a quote from your country's State Department on safety concerns in China. How does anyone travel to the other side of the globe without even looking at what their government states as security risks? And then you mock someone who quotes them?
I suppose everyone at the state department is conspiracy theorists and need medical attention. You still do not even understand the risks that riots and protests pose. The real threat is not the physical violence, but a subsequent police round up. If you are believed to be part of any of it you may be beat or you may be deported. Will your homeless friend, that is a friend of friend you never meet, help you when you're in jail?
Again, I said repeatedly riots are only one risk and that other risks are even greater. Feel free to think I'm crazy along with the USA State Dept, PRC, every major reputable publication... Why? Because you know, even though you never been to China, and some guy on the internet said he never saw a riot.
Brilliant! |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| [Will Ferrell meme inserted] |
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mysterytrain
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| mattyko40 wrote: |
A 1000 other people have read this and probably a hundred of them are newbs.
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It is erroneous to assume that "view count" equals "number of individuals who have viewed / read a thread". It might be that ten different people have viewed a thread one hundred times each, or one hundred people have viewed it ten times each, and so on (as Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. said, at least once or twice). |
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:52 am Post subject: |
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mattyko40:
You're becoming very shrill. It's time to move on. |
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Double_Dragon
Joined: 12 Mar 2015
Posts: 70
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by Double_Dragon on Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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3701 W.119th
Joined: 26 Feb 2014
Posts: 386
Location: Central China
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| buravirgil wrote: |
| [Will Ferrell meme inserted] |
Superb. |
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theoriginalprankster
Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 895
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| combined with paying for two Chinese visas, my wife's US visa, medical checks, plus our start-up and survival costs for the first forty days in China have eaten into our savings from the last four years, "big time". Fortunately the new job here pays well enough that once I get the first salary payment in a few weeks (minus deductions for the health checks in China, health insurance, and even our residence permits), I should be able to build those savings back up pretty quickly. (Is it "normal" for an FT to pay the cost of a residence permit, by the way? In my previous job in China, I didn't have to pay for this) |
I scored with my new job - paid my flight back to my country, on the way they put me up at a 4 star hotel in HK as they had to courier the invite letter to me before I headed back (and my old Chinese visa was done), they paid the cost of the Z visa, flight back, health check, and put me up in free accommodation until I find a suitable apartment - if I don't have sufficient money for the 3 months + 1 month deposit they'll forward some cash, and deduct over a few months.
I also spent all my savings on a year long sabbatical (went travelling and recuperating from 10 years in China).
Now I'm back, in Shanghai, and working a 40 hour week - man oh man, it takes some adjusting.
But it's 20K/m after tax, so I should be saving some good dosh. Looking forward to my next vacation somewhere in SEA! |
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