Job Discussion Forums

[FreakingTea]

I've been on this forum for a while now, though not too active lately, just working hard and loving China. I may actually end up staying here for the foreseeable future, but that future is looking foggy.

As things stand, I'm on year 2 of working for a training school in Dalian, and it's obviously not taking me places career-wise, so I'd like to branch out. I'm considering the international school route, but since I'm learning Chinese pretty seriously in my free time I'm wondering whether I could possibly get some other job using language skills once I get good enough. I may also get married to my Chinese SO, which opens up the spousal visa. What I'd like to know is whether I could work at jobs that *don't* require a FEC on that visa, or whether I will always need to have a Z visa in order to work legally, even at non-teaching jobs. And if not, can I definitely work on a permanent residence if I get that after five years?

Thanks, everyone!

[jimpellow]

I am pretty sure that you are given a one year renewable L visa which does not entitle you to work, so you have to apply separately for a work visa.

As for switching from teaching to another career, sure it happens. There was a thread on here some time back on how this was rather less common as the visas had become harder to obtain and the Chinese employers were now finding it advantageous to just hire Chinese who were returning to China after graduating from Western University.

One area to look at would be doing QC for a foreign company. There is an amazing amount of distrust of anything shipped from China (wonder why?), and foreign companies will try to hire less corruptible Westerners to better ensure QC.

Assuming that her family is in Dalian, I would think that you will need to stay there so her parents can try to run your life and raise your soon to be born child. I really wouldn't want to work for Koreans, but I would think some of those companies might want a Westerner for various reasons.

I think you have to apply for "Permanent Residence of Employment" to be able to work, rather than "Permanent Residence Of Aliens".

Sure some married to meinu folk will have better insights on the legalities.

[Shanghai Noon]

It is the same process. Some occupations require an Alien Employment Permit, but the process is still the same.

[doogsville]

You can't work on the spousal visa it's effectively a one year multiple entry tourist visa. You'd still need to get a job and go through the whole process of getting an FEC and work permit. I have heard of cases, indeed I know one guy personally, who despite having the spousal visa was told he still had to return to his native country and get a Z visa in order to come back and get the FEC and work permit. We suspect that might be because our FAO didn't know how to get him the FEC etc with the spousal visa, so just wanted him to do it the way she usually deals with it. He didn't take the job. Other people may have better luck.

Speaking of luck, good luck with getting the permanent resident permit, AKA Green Card. One of my friends just got his after almost three years of trying. It was a bureaucratic nightmare. Delay after delay and they asked for a ton of information. He had to get a criminal record check from the UK, and six months later still hadn't heard from them, so he went back to the UK for a few weeks on holiday. When he got back they made him get the criminal record check again because they said he might have committed a crime while he was away. They really don't seem to want to issue them very often.

[Non Sequitur]

the Chinese employers were now finding it advantageous to just hire Chinese who were returning to China after graduating from Western University.

I tried this idea out on a former student who taught for two years after graduating and she scoffed at the idea. She says grads and especially those returning from Western universities are horrified by the low salaries for beginning unregistered teachers.
She taught at a Foreign Language high school and I think her salary was just under 2000RMB per month.
She could only manage by living at home. Of course if you haven't anything else lined up 2000 could look OK.
Established registered teachers do a bit better, but it is the paid after school and holiday coaching that is the main earner for them.

[jimpellow]

[Non Sequitur]

There has been mention that returning grads feel they have sufficient English skill to replace native-speaker FTs.
So it is one of the avenues being looked at those who left in the boom times and are returning to a slower economy.

[FreakingTea]

Thanks for the advice, you guys, but I'd like to point out that I'm a woman and there is no soon to be born child in the mix. I'm not completely tied to Dalian, though his parents live here. We hope to travel around a lot and maybe even work in another city for a short time.

I'm considering brushing up on my Japanese skills, since I studied it for five years and got pretty good, but lost interest after I decided Japan wasn't where I wanted to be long-term. There's decent demand for Japanese in Dalian, since there are so many Japanese companies here. I could possibly leverage both Chinese and Japanese skills along with being a native English speaker. I've been told that the Chinese people who know Japanese tend to suck at English, and vice versa, so it could be very valuable. Then again, from what I know of Japanese company culture...

I'm by no means tired of teaching! I'm interested in starting a small school like another FT I know, but I'm afraid of a possible crackdown. My SO is very interested in doing that too, because he teaches English to kids. It seems like I would have to at least have a work visa job with low hours, though, if the spousal visa doesn't allow anything, even non-FEC work.

[jimpellow]

The Japanese angle sounds great. I taught Japanese businesspeople when I lived in the Philippines and absolutely loved it. One thing I really liked about teaching them (besides the gifts) is that if I prebuilt the value of what they would be able to do after say a two week course, they would make their Japanese "aaaahhhs" and then be motivated to accomplish it and see me as some sort of demigod, which my massive ego never tired of. By build value I mean using their improved English and Business skills to accomplish defined goals in their careers. As this type of marketing demonstrates value to them, they are also willing to pay the teacher a lot more than standard English.

I think you could do quite well and build a business approaching Japanese companies for onsite group English classes for specific purposes. Maybe even remotely using virtual classroom software which would allow you to have some geographic mobility and the ability to work without any real risk of being caught.

If the business were framed as consulting, rather than educational, that may give you some options for how to operate and grow it legally in China. You are very likely in the wrong group to ask how to accomplish that. You may want to do a consultation with an immigration lawyer at say lawandborder.

Personally, I think you have a great opportunity to build something while still doing what you love. I hope you would not allow yourself to settle for some part-time z-visa job due to some obstacles. Go get 'em tigress!

[jimpellow]

[Non Sequitur]

Good points Jim
The Chinese seem reluctant to get native-speaker input in product support materials.
I worked for an educational publisher in Dalian for a semester as a final editor on their textbook range.
Trouble was that they called me in at final proofing stage and if the piece needed major revision they couldn't accommodate it.
I asked them repeatedly to involve me early in the process.
I think there were 'face' issues as major revisions would undermine the authority of the Chinese academic whose work it was.
The texts were mainly aimed at Middle School students, but I never saw them in bookshops.
Some FTs may have seen them. The publisher is Dalian University of Technology Press.
If they had just taken that little bit extra trouble the end product would have been v good.

[hdeth]

[hdeth]

[Non Sequitur]

Don't get me started on paving blocks.
Throw down a bit of sand. No compaction or locking grit and after 2/3 days, the footpath is once again a death trap.

[FreakingTea]

Well the repaving thing is all just corruption. I've had people explain to me that there are kickbacks at every level of the government whenever a construction funding request is approved by the top. Since performance is measured by the amount of projects completed (and GDP!), it's much better for everyone to do dozens of shoddy projects over and over than to do it well the first time. Think broken windows plus bribes. And since all the money comes out of the approved fund, the construction companies have no choice but to cut corners since they only get like half of what they asked for. China will never be a developed country as long as they keep pulling this stuff...