|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Willoughby
Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Posts: 6
|
 Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:20 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Hi nichtta
I hope that I didn't sound as if I was putting you on the spot. Being a newbie myself, I don't have the right to do that, yet. 
Really, some universities are asking for an MA in TESOL and a BA in English? I thought a TESOL masters would overwrite the BA?
As for learning something useful from your MA TESOL, let me share with you some of my experiences. I'm currently doing one at a reputable Australian city that consistently ranks among the top 50 universities in the world. It also has a strong linguistics department and is the same university where I did my BA 20 years ago.
My experience has been disappointing. Two-thirds of the class consist of students from China, Vietnam, Burma and Thailand. The bulk are from the Chinese mainland. Most of them can barely string a sentence in English together and have learning styles that are vastly different from what I'm accustomed to. They can be quite loud and disrespectful - few, if any, understand the concept of personal space and academic integrity is something that is quite alien to them. As a teacher, this experience has been useful in teaching me patience and tolerance, and how to handle cultural differences in the classroom. As a student, I feel that I'm not getting my money's worth as classes are pitched at the weakest students viz the Chinese mainlanders. They are also marked on a more lenient scale even though they will end up with the same degree and transcript as I will.
Times have certainly changed. When I was an undergrad 20 years ago, most of the international students were from Singapore and Malaysia, and they were a talented and motivated bunch who often did better than us. Now, admission standards seem to have been lowered as our unis have become money-grabbing institutions that accept anyone who's able to pay, including many of our own Aussie students in full-fee places.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
nichtta
Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Willoughby wrote: |
Hi nichtta
I hope that I didn't sound as if I was putting you on the spot. Being a newbie myself, I don't have the right to do that, yet. |
No, I didn't think that at all. However, I appreciate your message.
| Willoughby wrote: |
| Really, some universities are asking for an MA in TESOL and a BA in English? I thought a TESOL masters would overwrite the BA? |
I think you're right that an MA in TESOL should suffice, and it's not necessary to have a BA in English. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear in my post.
| Willoughby wrote: |
As for learning something useful from your MA TESOL, let me share with you some of my experiences. I'm currently doing one at a reputable Australian city that consistently ranks among the top 50 universities in the world. It also has a strong linguistics department and is the same university where I did my BA 20 years ago.
My experience has been disappointing. Two-thirds of the class consist of students from China, Vietnam, Burma and Thailand. The bulk are from the Chinese mainland. Most of them can barely string a sentence in English together and have learning styles that are vastly different from what I'm accustomed to. They can be quite loud and disrespectful - few, if any, understand the concept of personal space and academic integrity is something that is quite alien to them. As a teacher, this experience has been useful in teaching me patience and tolerance, and how to handle cultural differences in the classroom. As a student, I feel that I'm not getting my money's worth as classes are pitched at the weakest students viz the Chinese mainlanders. They are also marked on a more lenient scale even though they will end up with the same degree and transcript as I will.
Times have certainly changed. When I was an undergrad 20 years ago, most of the international students were from Singapore and Malaysia, and they were a talented and motivated bunch who often did better than us. Now, admission standards seem to have been lowered as our unis have become money-grabbing institutions that accept anyone who's able to pay, including many of our own Aussie students in full-fee places.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do! |
I really appreciate your sharing some insight into your educational experience as it helps me have more realistic expectations. Thanks also for the well wishes. I also wish you the best of success and hope the situation for all ESL teachers improves. I've recently learned of the potential job opportunities at US universities with an MA in TESOL should I ever need to or decide to move back, which makes me feel better about putting in the time to get an MA. It seems like a step in the right direction and a good investment to advance my career. I'm thankful for taking the CELTA, although I really didn't need it for any of the jobs I was offered. I did learn a lot from the experience, but it's just not good enough for someone looking to teach ESL in the long-term, especially at the tertiary level. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Willoughby wrote: |
| Really, some universities are asking for an MA in TESOL and a BA in English? I thought a TESOL masters would overwrite the BA?! |
No, you only need one qualifying degree for KSA. A BA in English is generally KAU's entry-level requirement for Saudi teachers rather than for foreigners. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dustdevil
Joined: 27 Mar 2014
Posts: 38
Location: Retired in U.S.
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| nichtta wrote: |
I really appreciate all the helpful information, everyone!
| nomad soul wrote: |
| I think you mean nationally-accredited Turkish universities. |
I said internationally accredited because I know of many examples of students studying in Turkey then completing their degrees (either Masters or PhD) in North America or Europe, i.e., their Bachelors or Masters degrees were recognized and accepted. I've seen this for both Turkish nationals as well as foreigners, who studied here. However, that doesn't matter if KSA's government (thanks for pointing out that its their governments that set these restrictions) or other gulf countries don't recognize it just like how online degrees' acceptance in North America and Europe is irrelevant to KSA.
----------
hash, what you wrote is a big bummer, but I thank you for pointing that out with a clear example. I feel like their restrictions are just getting ridiculous at this point. What does being born in these countries confirm? I have many friends, who were born abroad but came to the US at a young age and speak English as any other native speaker would. It seems that having a PhD in TESOL is very soon going to be the next requirement that comes up, so I need to get in before that happens.
Anyways, I was born and raised in the US with my BA ("unrelated," mind you) from there, too. I also, of course, have US citizenship.
----------
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| You might take a look at the TEFL MA Fellowship at the American University of Cairo. It is an American accredited degree. When I was going through their program, we had two Fellows who had been teaching in Turkey prior to starting the program. |
Wow, definitely just checked that out, considering Egypt is super cheap. As hash wrote, one big pro is that it does give me experience teaching English to native speakers of Arabic plus experience teaching in the Arab world. The only concern I have about it (other than the recent military coup and deteriorating security situation) is the sexual harassment of women on the streets. I don't want to put my wife through that, but we'll talk and see if it's possible to deal with it for two years.
Okay, so I found AUC's TESOL MA, which I'll post here for the benefit of others following this thread or those who may read it in the future:
http://catalog.aucegypt.edu/preview_program.php?catoid=20&poid=3033
Although AUC is $10,206 per semester and isn't free, you're right that there's a TEFL Fellowship with tuition paid for two years plus a monthly stipend:
http://new.aucegypt.edu/admissions/fellowships/tefl
General graduate merit scholarships are also available:
http://new.aucegypt.edu/admissions/fellowships/graduate-merit
All the American Universities (DC, Cairo, Beirut, Sharjah, Paris, Puerto Rico, and Rome) are accredited by the Middle States Commission of Higher Education, which is recognized by the U.S. Secretary of Education:
http://www.msche.org/
Therefore it is an Anglophone university, as in English-speaking (you even need to show English proficiency to sign up for their Arabic program), accredited in an Anglophone country, although it's not located in an Anglophone country.
VS, how did employers look at your AUC TEFL MA and in which countries did you work in the gulf, if you don't mind me asking?
I'm definitely applying to this program for 2016-2018 and also applying to all of those fellowships.
----------
| hash wrote: |
| PS - Assuming you're from the US, there are now several places in the USA that offer MA degrees in TESOL (or similar) after only one year of study. Last time I looked, I found about 10 such institutions - there may be more now. |
So, I found that this is the case for a lot of UK Masters degrees, i.e., the fact that they're one year in length, but they cost at least $20,000 for international students. Along with living expenses in the UK for about eight months, it's just not something I can afford.
I saw that the University of Exeter has a summer intensive program (four weeks in July for two summers in a row and then a thesis the last year: a total of three years), and the tuition can be paid over two years. It's the only UK university with this option according to their website, so it's a more financially viable option, but this begs the question: would KSA employers consider this "part-time" or "online" because the papers and thesis are turned in online, although all the classes are face-to-face and delivered on campus. For those interested, here's the program's website:
http://socialsciences.exeter.ac.uk/education/graduatestudies/masters/tesolsummer/
I'm going to try to look these US 1-year MA in TESOL programs up because all I've been able to find are 2-year programs. I'll post information about them on this thread when I get the details. |
What you mean is internationally [/i]recognized, not "accredited." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nichtta
Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dustdevil wrote: |
| What you mean is internationally [/i]recognized, not "accredited." |
No, that's not what I meant. I meant "internationally accredited." You can read something I wrote in a later post on this very same thread, which explains why I called the degrees that and why this expression is used by quite a few actual accreditations on their respective websites. Regardless, you can call the degree "internationally recognized" or "internationally accredited." It isn't a big deal for me. It's a tangential discussion and besides the point.  What's important is the meaning behind the expression. As long as we're on the the same page and know what we're talking about, that's all I really care about. I've learned from being an immigrant in a country where I had to learn the language from zero that the most important thing in communication is being understood and understanding what is being said, so please excuse my pragmatic approach to the issue.
Anyways, we're talking about KSA, the gulf, and what practically is being applied in terms of policies and procedures that pertain to recognizing degrees rather than theory. That's what I was really getting at, and, once again, I'd like to really thank everyone who participated in this discussion and provided helpful responses. I got more than I was expecting in terms of answering my inquiry, and I hope that they benefit future TESOL teachers in the future, who stumble upon or search for and find this thread. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hash
Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 12:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
Just one more point, if I may. It's been mentioned before above, but I just wanted to emphasize it here.
The vast majority of US nationals who choose to live overseas, for whatever reason, as an ESLer or in other capacities, EVENTUALLY return to the USA on a permanent basis. This includes the growing number of citizens who VOW "never to return" (Yawn).
My point is: always keep in mind where you really will end up say in 20 years. Chances are it'll be the USA regardless of what you are planning now. You've been very reticent about your personal situation so it's a little difficult to give advice.....not sure whether it would apply to you.
In any case, I again urge you to get a US or at least a British MA in the field (or AUC's MA) so that WHEN you DO return to the US, you'll have a chance of getting employment in the field. With a Turkish (or other) MA, you won't get in the front door. Not as an TESOL teacher.
Plus remember, the longer you wait the more difficult it will be to do this. Programs are always changing, prices keep going up and so on. The time is now, especially since you've got your eye on KSA......10 years from now, not only will an MA be much more expensive and difficult to get, KSA may no longer be around.....or it may no longer be an option for US teachers (look what happened in Iran). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nichtta
Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 4:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| hash wrote: |
Just one more point, if I may. It's been mentioned before above, but I just wanted to emphasize it here.
The vast majority of US nationals who choose to live overseas, for whatever reason, as an ESLer or in other capacities, EVENTUALLY return to the USA on a permanent basis. This includes the growing number of citizens who VOW "never to return" (Yawn).
My point is: always keep in mind where you really will end up say in 20 years. Chances are it'll be the USA regardless of what you are planning now. You've been very reticent about your personal situation so it's a little difficult to give advice.....not sure whether it would apply to you.
In any case, I again urge you to get a US or at least a British MA in the field (or AUC's MA) so that WHEN you DO return to the US, you'll have a chance of getting employment in the field. With a Turkish (or other) MA, you won't get in the front door. Not as an TESOL teacher.
Plus remember, the longer you wait the more difficult it will be to do this. Programs are always changing, prices keep going up and so on. The time is now, especially since you've got your eye on KSA......10 years from now, not only will an MA be much more expensive and difficult to get, KSA may no longer be around.....or it may no longer be an option for US teachers (look what happened in Iran). |
Thank you for again bringing this up. I've never vowed not to go back to the US. It'll always be my home, and it's my intention to eventually return, one reason being that I don't know if I have the patience to endure the way things are run on this side of the world forever, haha. Plus, on a more serious note, I recognize that I have no control over certain events in life, such as the illness of family members, which may cause me to move back home in order to spend time with them and take care of them. Such life events can happen suddenly and unexpectedly. Looking into various MA programs has made me think about this point. What I found online is that with a good degree, I would be able to teach in a university or at least community college. Please correct me if I'm wrong. That's yet another reason to pursue AUC's MA. I hope I get in and also am awarded the TEFL Fellowship!
The only thing I wonder about is if there is a time when it's too late to go back. For example, if I turn 50 after having lived abroad in many countries for the preceding three decades, what is my potential for finding a job back in the US? I'd be very experienced, but is there a future for someone that old in the university or are universities more inclined to want a young, fresh graduate with a couple years of experience under their belt? I remember all three of my middle-aged CELTA instructors having MAs in TESOL and also having traveled abroad, so maybe that's a potential career path... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hash
Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| nichtta wrote: |
The only thing I wonder about is if there is a time when it's too late to go back. For example, if I turn 50 after having lived abroad in many countries for the preceding three decades, what is my potential for finding a job back in the US? |
There is no doubt that AGE is a factor for anyone seeking a job after about 50 and even younger. Not only in the TESL field but in ANY field. And not only in the USA but anywhere. (I would say this is particularly true for men......I can't point to any statistics, that's just been my experience. Older women seemingly can get a "secretarial" job any ol' time just about anywhere).
It's also a sad reality that the younger you are the MORE experience counts in getting a job. On the other hand, the older you are, the less experience counts....it's the age that matters. (In other words, you can't win - you're damned if you do and damned if you don't).
There's also the question of Social Security and Medicare......too long out of the US, and you're looking at perhaps $250/month in SS benefits at age 67+-. Can you live on that? Whatever you do, be sure you have a minimum of 40 quarters (10 years) of covered (by SS) employment under your belt. (They don't have to be consecutive). If you don't you'll get nothing.
One seldom mentioned benefit of working in KSA is that age is not really a factor.....or at least it's like 55 as a limit or something like that. In other words, you can get hired at an advanced age totally unlike what happens in the USA. And if you're hired, you can stay on practically until you drop.
My suggestion? Anyone under 40 should try to put in 5-10 years in the Gulf someplace. Do that and you can get out debt free with around $100 thou in your hip pocket. Then return to your country and take it from there. If you reach age 50 and beyond and you're still in the Gulf, you begin to seriously lose contact in an important way with family, friends and the way of life back in the US. Re-adjustment becomes more difficult and so on.
I'm talking in generalities of course. But I've known ELDERLY men who after returning to the US following 30 years abroad, cannot adjust at all and find themselves back in Tabuk or Al-Hasa plying away in front of students again., happy as canaries in a cage. (I'm looking at one such creature as I type this, and I don't mean me).
Last edited by hash on Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:34 am; edited 3 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| nichtta wrote: |
| The only thing I wonder about is if there is a time when it's too late to go back. For example, if I turn 50 after having lived abroad in many countries for the preceding three decades, what is my potential for finding a job back in the US? I'd be very experienced, but is there a future for someone that old in the university or are universities more inclined to want a young, fresh graduate with a couple years of experience under their belt? I remember all three of my middle-aged CELTA instructors having MAs in TESOL and also having traveled abroad, so maybe that's a potential career path... |
Age isn't a factor; US university IEPs want teachers with quality experience and not fresh graduates. Take a look at TESOL.org's career page for actual IEP job ads indicated by state. Even better, check out Spring International Language Center's faculty profiles at the Univ. of Arkansas; they're a good representation of the qualifications you should have.
I suggest you also consider doing a stint or two with Georgetown University's English Language Fellow Program after you've completed your degree and rack up a few post-MA years under your belt. Being an ELF offers unique professional development opportunities, which enhance your resume. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nichtta
Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 1:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks so much for your insight and also telling me about the SS benefits, which I didn't know were affected by how many quarters we put in while paying them, hash.
Your advice is golden, nomad_soul. I checked out both websites and will definitely be seriously thinking about them for the next few years until I finish my MA. Muchas gracias! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
