Job Discussion Forums

[earl]

I left China at the beginning of '07 after a couple of years teaching ESL at a couple of different unis. After completing my masters and working for a couple of years I am thinking of coming back to China.

So I was wondering how much has changed. Certainly the shape of the cities has changed, I have noticed that even by looking at news reports from China. Regularly there are also news reports about inflation in China driving up labor costs etc.

So my questions:

Are things much more expensive than they were?

Has the job market changed much?

Has there been any improvement in air quality where you are?

Would love to hear some perspectives from people who were in China back then and still are

[OhBudPowellWhereArtThou]

I think that a lot depends upon where you teach. Since '07, teacher qualifications SUPPOSEDLY have been tightened. You need a minimum of two years work experience (preferably teaching) post graduation.

At some Unis, some sort of TEFL cert is requested, even if you have over a decade of teaching under your belt and you have advanced degrees in English. This is just at SOME universities.

Judging by my personal experiences, it seems that public universities are tightening their belts. They're more concerned about cost of utilities now than in '07.

There are more automobiles on the street now than there were in '07. LOTS more. Tier 2 and 3 city buses are more likely to be air conditioned.

Things cost a lot more now than they did in '07. The degree of the inflation depends upon location.

These are just some of the many changes.

[wangdaning]

Yeah, as Bud said, many changes are really city specific. Been here since 2008, so about what you are asking for.

Inflation has hit, and it hit the housing market, too. Prices are dropping for houses now though. My landlord decided he (actually it seems more like his wife) wants to sell, and that is awkward. If you go into a chainstore to buy household products, the price probably has shifted a few yuan.

Not sure if it is just me, but for uni teachers, it seems like the students are getting a bit more out of high school. I am not talking strictly about their English, more about their habits as students. I found last year I needed to say bring a pen, paper, your glasses, less often. Could be just my particular groups though.

Cars are everywhere and construction too. Pollution if anything has gotten worse where I live. There is a lot of knocking down old places and building new places, which are often knew old places. The cars, especially at commuting times, can make you crazy.

As for the job market, not really sure about finding a job. I have been with mine for 7 years. Pay should be up, if someone lowballs you tell them that you need more to live. Again, though, this depends on a where.

[Laurence]

[RiverMystic]

Laurence's last point is a very big difference, certainly over a longer period of time. I've been in and out of China since 2002. The prevalence of smart phones has basically killed all public communication where I live and travel - southern China. Nobody talks to anyone they don't know. This is not an exaggeration. People just don't talk to others. This means that the experience of being a foreigner is far more dissociated from the Chinese community than it used to be. You have to be the one who makes most of the moves, because people just don't have the skills or desire to talk.

Personally I find this a sad development. Relationships with people are the most important aspect of any rating of quality of life. And the China experience has lost much of that allure today. I would estimate most people where I live stare at a screen probably 6-8 hours a day (surveys suggest this, too), while spending not a second communicating with anyone they don't know. Many don't even make eye contact with shop assistants or service people, nor say hello or thank you. Just throw down money, take the change and leave.

This may vary from region to region, of course, but generally speaking public life is one of extreme alienation. This is why developing friends and networks is so important. This is a very, very bad place to be socially isolated.

[earl]

Interesting points and thanks for your responses guys. Yes I have noticed that advertised salaries are much higher than they were, mostly. Some unis still seem to be paying what they were in 2005 when I arrived, that can't be good.

I was interested to hear Laurence that with foreign tourism the Chinese are becoming more self reflective. Surely that is a good thing . I must admit that back in the day I was quite appalled by the general ignorance and lack of social graces of the man on the street. Of course these things take time to change, so I certainly don't expect any miracles there.

One thing that I did enjoy when in China was the entrepreneurial spirit of the people and the sense of opportunity I had being a FT. It is quite liberating to feel that you can work practically as much or as little as you want to. I had periods where I just did my 12 hour a week uni gig and others where I had two part time gigs on top of my uni hours, which kept me really busy. Do you think there has been any shift in the availably of work?

RiverMystic, I hear your point on the way smart phones have affected the way people interact in the streets. To be honest I wonder if it is necessarily any different to anywhere else in the world? I did a stint in the pacific for 4 years after being in China where there was basically no internet and only 2G phone service. When I came back to Australia, it was quite a shock to see how everyone lived on their phones. For example when taking a train to the city, almost everyone under 50 has headphones on and are staring at their screens! The only people talking are the oldies and the crazies

If you had to make a choice, would you say things in general (life, work) are better now compared to how they were (of course this is highly subjective)?

[astrotrain]

[wangdaning]

Man, that sounds sad astrotrain. My wife is not from the south of China but I did meet her there. My family is poor, I don't make a huge amount of money, and her family is poor, too. I think we get along because we have similar backgrounds. I make enough for us to live comfortably and that is good enough for her. Been married for like 6 years, and no need to remember the anniversary. It is hard to find a group to fit into here, but once you do it is good pretty much for life.

I don't wechat, it is annoying. Every group filled with a bunch of crap nobody cares about. I have it on my PC on an Android virtual machine and check it once a day for work, yet nothing has ever came up. I think things like wechat are why people are always looking at their phones. If someone sends me a text message I will check it, but if you use wechat that means you are constantly bombarded with messages. People say it is cheaper to send a wechat message, but nobody can do the maths behind it to explain how using data to send a message over wechat is cheaper than sending a message. I am assuming it would be a difference of a few fen either way, depending on your phone plan.

[astrotrain]

@ wangdaning

Yes, it does sound a tad bit morbid the social scene here now.

I had a preconceived notion that this place Nanning would be less insular, tech isolating than major cities like Beiing or Shanghai, plus the weather attracted me to the location but boy was I wrong.

I have been here just a little less than 4 weeks so I can't really make a definitive judgement but I truly miss my friends and family in Toronto.
Maybe because you met your wife 6 years ago, the culture back then was less self isolating with the lack of smartphones etc but now like everything in China 6 years ago seems like decades due to the constant flux in this country.

My close FT friend who has been here for 4 years now in this city just goes to work then goes home in a Taxi or hangs around the mall buying western food, milk, cheese, spagetti etc. This long holiday all he does is sleep, stays home and read. 7 long days off and nothing. He has a bad leg, was in the U.S. military so understandable but very self isolating existance. I tell him to get a wife but he says not the marrying type. But Cool and very amiable guy.

We hanged together for 4 or 5 times at the malls here, nothing else to do!
The other FTs are younger in their late 20s, all they do is bar hop and hit the bottles, why? Very noninclusive culture makes some go extreme in the other direction. I doubt in the States they would be trying so hard in the bars all the time due to cultural familiarity. I only went on one excusion and got so pissed drunk -hangover.

The Chinese social scene in Southern China is very isolating for foreigners, almost xenophobic to a degree. Either you fall to either extremes -a homer or a club boozer- very little middle ground. We are afterall just a bunch of Laoweis. U lucked in, but different times then.

[wangdaning]

I don't think you took it this way, but I want to be clear I was not ever putting you down.

It might just be that too many, even non-mailand Chinese, have been there. This means you have to try harder than before, but it does not mean Chinese are not out to make friends.

Come to Chengdu and I will introduce you to some people.

[astrotrain]

[buravirgil]

Yeah...this is the job-related forum. Take this bro-fest to a PM or off-topic at least.

[theoriginalprankster]

[RiverMystic]

Earl,
I agree it is getting worse everywhere with mobile phones, including in Australia. But there just seems to be something in the East Asian cultures with predisposes them to obsession with gadgets. They seem to be less embodied, and more distracted cultures, to generalise.



Astrotrain,
In part you are experiencing culture shock. But of course when you come from big, open countries to crowded countries it can be an extra shock. I'm a little surprised about your case, given that you are Asian in heritage. I find even overseas Chinese and Asian cultures tend to be obsessed with the machines. But it's only a generalisation.


As for the positives. Public transport is getting much better in terms of accessibility. Many more subway lines. And the fast trains are incredible - cheap, reliable, always running. It really makes a huge difference with intercity travel.

Less smoking in many places, too, which is great. People aren't as likely to light up in Starbucks or on an airplane as once.

Generally less spitting in developed urban areas - but that is a relative point.

For expats, generally plenty of expat connections vis apps, meet up groups and so on. There was a time when such things were difficult to organise or find in many places. Not so much anymore.

[wangdaning]

[quote="buravirgil"]Yeah...this is the job-related forum. Take this bro-fest to a PM or off-topic at least. [/quote

For what?