Job Discussion Forums

[matmac]

hey everyone,

just hoping that a few teachers out there could give me some feedback on teaching in the baltics. i am currently looking to try and find a job in riga or tallinn. can anyone tell me about their experiences in either of these cities. what pay should i be looking for? do schools cover flat expenses, etc? how hard is it to get work up there? should i just get off my arse and bang on doors. so far the internet e-mailing thing has not produced as much as i was hoping it would. i have my tefl, not much experience, and an eu passport.

thanks in advance for any feedback.

[email protected]

[Roger]

I only know these places from my experience as a traveller; basically teachers make no money there. You will just make both ends meet!
On the other hand, I would also be thrilled if I got a job there. Students are really devoted to their studied. Everyone speaks perfect Russian, and quite a few have acquired English as a third language over the past ten to fifteen years!
The cities are photogenic and ought by now to be full of life. The economies are getting ever stronger.

[Communist Smurf]

Roger, I hope you're not talking about Tallin. The Estonians do not speak perfect Russian and English is not a third language. When Estonians speak to Russians (living in Estonia) they speak English. Although most Estonians study Russian in school for as much as 6 years, they still don't speak it.

English is the second language of Tallin because most (especially young) Estonians speak it. Russian is spoken by the Russians and about 15% of the Estonians. If you can speak Russian, I would advise you use your English. If you look and speak Russian, the Estonias won't be very receptive to you.

CS

[matmac]

thanks for clearing that up for us smurf...could you possibly answer one of my questions?

thanks

[Communist Smurf]

[ibasiram]

Hello,
Well, I was up in the area for a few days sightseeing earlier this year, and also pooped into a few language schools with my CV etc..
I generally found that most of them were not really impressed with the fact that I was a native speaker..not just that, I also have the CELTA and a few years experience, and I gather that the whole TEFL industry there is not as well developed as in Poland, for example, and it's true that the wages there barely allow you to live ..I've heard of a lot of people who have had to leave Tallinn because they were actually losing money there...it's not a cheap place anymore..

Riga is really nice really nice and pretty, and I remember being offered a job there by a school who cjanged their minds a few weeks later because I had the cheek to try and ask questions and negotiate about my job and contract..so that's what's there.

Then there is also IH in the 3 capitals. The usual story there, sharing accommodation, very far from the school, very low wages (for cities that are not cheap anymore), but the most professional outfit there, in terms of teacher development.

Riga was my favourite, as it was the biggest, and the population mixture of Latvians/Russians there is about 43 / 50% and this makes interesting observing. Out of the 3, I'd prefer to work in Riga, but I know that the money there is very low or the schools there are questionable....

Ibasiram

[Communist Smurf]

[Roger]

Well, Commu8nist smurf,
you seem to be an enviably young person who wasn't around back in the 1990s, when those Baltic republics were grappling with their freshly-won nationhood.
Last time I met a threesome of Estonians - here in China - they confirmed that they were better at Russian than at English, though the latter was pretty good.
They were in their 20s.

I was in Tallinn (note the spelling) back in 1992; at that time, Russian was still the dominant lingo. I appreciate that there is an ethnic divide that has even occupied the ciritical minds of the eurocrats who are afraid those Baltic republics might develop troublesome interethnic relationships, and language/nationality (the Balts were for some time known to be wanting to get rid of their Russian populations unless the latter became proficient at their host countries' national language).

English has been chosen for self-evident reasons, as it has in most former socialist Eastern countries. Russian was never very popular - before the 1990s it was fairly easy to get around using GERMAN but hardly possible to communicate in ENGLISH.

[Communist Smurf]

[ibasiram]

Oh dear, now I know why I never got a job there..thanks very much Communist Smurf for saying that you can't do that in those States..I'll know for next time
But, English is spoken all over the place there, even elderly ladies in small shops speak English quite well in Tallinn (By the way, Tallin is Estonian language...so is that also correct?)
Russian has almost totally fallen through there compared with English, although Russian is stil popular in Riga, because of the population mix there.. And to get citizenship, you do have to speak the local language almost fluently..and that's another major problem for Russians as they don't all seem to manage to do that...

Have a good time,
Ibasiram

[Roger]

Communist smurf,
I think you are an ill-tempered loser, nothing else.

Enjoy your travelling in old Eastern Europe. And, Russian is still widely known, though widely hated as you rightly polinted out. Nothing new to anyone - Americans are hated too, or so I keep hearing from Americans themselves.
But the languages are spoken, Russian and English.

[Communist Smurf]

Do everyone a favor and talk only about things you actually know something about.

CS

[GF]

I agree with CS. I am an American who has been living in Tallinn for the past two months. Before that, I traveled here 7 times for visa runs (from Moscow) and for other business. Virtually all young people and many older ones speak English, a lot of them quite well. Most of my Estonian friends and acquaintances either do not speak Russian at all or do so quite poorly, and they don't want to learn it. I have found that teens who speak both Estonian and Russian fluently usually come from mixed families and, interestingly, all the ones I have met identified themselves as Estonians only.
As far as Americans being hated, I haven't encountered any of that since I have been here. Speaking English in public, even out of the center, does not earn me dirty or suspicious looks. In fact, I have never been asked a single question about President Bush or the Iraqi War since my arrival. When I was working in Moscow, I was asked about these topics all the time.
The economy here isn't great but it is a hell of a lot better than Russia's and it is definitely on the upswing, especially in Tallinn. I have been told that the average income is about 400 Euros a month.
Finding full-time teaching work here at an acceptable rate of pay is not easy, especially if all you teach is English. I have found that most places are not terribly impressed with native speakers because the local talent is just as good and much cheaper to employ. In fact, I only got work because I have 20 years of teaching experience in full-program day schools (as opposed to language schools) and because I have multiple disciplines (English, History and Geography - and English was the subject they were least interested in from me). Personally, I recommend Moscow. I worked there for 4 1/2 years and had lots of fun while making bundles of cash. Things are getting a bit too 'Soviet' these days for my tastes, but there are plenty of good opportunities to be had.

[chushki2]

I lived in Latvia in the mid-late '90s. (Even at that time, Russian was on the skids in Estonia, but I don't see how relevant that is to this discussion).

Of course, I'm sure things have changed now with EU admission, but at that time there were people making a fair amount of money doing private tutoring in Riga (although as Peace Corps volunteers, they weren't supposed to be!)

You might want to reconsider your location. Tallinn is nice but my brother who visited for a day referred to it as "themeparky" and I have to concur to a certain extent. Your rent (and living expense) is probably going to be substantially higher in a capital.

You might also consider that Lithuanians are "warmer" than other Balts, and the cost of living used to be lower there.

I would recommend looking into Ventspils, Latvia; a place that's fairly wealthy on the Baltic scale; and Kaunas, Lithuania.

[prplfairy]

Hey,

I lived and taught in Lithuania, the southern neighbor, for about 3 years from 1999 to 2001 and traveled frequently to Latvia and Estonia. The whole Russian thing is that because Riga was the Soviet governmental center everyone still speaks Russian there. There was a huge debate about making Latvian and Russian both official languages as its about 50/50 as the first language. So if you want Russian, I'm not sure why you would, then definitely go to Latvia. As for Estonia and Lithuania they were both fiercely resistant to the Soviets and their language. For the most part, especially older people, don't like speaking Russian as it is the language of the invader. While it is true that older people are much more likely to understand, though not always speak, Russian it is very much a foreign language these days to most kids in school. Obviously the kids sometimes benefit from their parents knowing some Russian and the availability of Russian movies and tv shows but the aforementioned dislike of things Russian and the penetration of and interest in western culture means that most in the Baltics see English as offering far more opportunities than Russian.

Money? Well you're not going to get rich teaching in the Baltics, that much is certain. When I was in Lithuania a good salary was about US $300-$400 a month for an teacher. This may have increased in the last few years and I know salaries at international schools are much better but that is the range as far as I know.

I don't know where this anti-American nonsense comes from. The Americans are seen as rich cash cows and its pretty hard to find a young person who would not rather be living or studying in America or England. Kids can make more money picking oranges in the west for a summer than a banker makes in a year in the Baltics.

I found my time in the Baltics to be wonderful and personally rewarding. I didn't make much money but I got into this for the life expereinces not money. I've heard that Poland is the real hotbed for teaching English in Eastern Europe these days.