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hash
Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn
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 Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: Then dont take the contract |
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| bertonneau wrote: |
| If you set terms for an employer and they wont accept them than you move on to the next employer. It's not bluster. It's the reality of any agreement ever. You negotiate whatever you do before you enter into something not after. There are plenty of jobs I've seen in Saudi that state a single entry visa. For me, that's unacceptable and so I move on to the next position, if you choose not to, again, that's your fault not the employers. There are plenty of employers here that will issue multiple entry visas as standard practice not the exception, but the rule they choose to do. If you choose to work for one that doesn't that's your fault not theirs. |
If you're an assistant manager, dean or vice-president of an employer, you might be able to negotiate. As an English teacher, forget it. It ain't gonna happen. All employers have administrative rules and policies about this sort of thing and they're not going to be making exceptions for an easily replaceable TEFL teacher. Not in a million years.
("Moving on" to the "next" position is easier said than done as I've already mentioned in my previous post. The days of the "jobs smorgasbord" in the Gulf including KSA are long gone.)
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| bertonneau wrote: |
| I'm working for an employer that has me on a business visa by my choice. I can get an Iqama if I choose. I have chosen not to. I can come in and out of Saudi at my discretion anytime I want for the next 5 years, only available to Americans. With that said all employers can easily get 6 month multiple entry visas if they want. |
However, a business visit visa has a short shelf life of just a few months until it needs to be renewed again and again. In fact, it will expire well before the multiple exit/reentry visa does. The sponsor may say khalas at that point.
Since you're touting this "benefit," why not indicate who your Saudi sponsor (not employer) is so that other job seekers interested in that arrangement can apply there. |
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bertonneau
Joined: 26 May 2009
Posts: 79
Location: Colorado USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:19 pm Post subject: Too little faith |
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Nomad Soul,
Due to the fact that I have too little faith in many of the folks that come here post and look for things I wont state who I work for. I am just a teacher, not a manager. I'm on a 5 year government business multiple entry visa that as stated is only for Americans. It was provided through one of the main visa agents/guys in the US that companies use to get many folks over here. Everything I'm saying is true and not a fantasy and I'm sorry for the folks that haven't stood firm and negotiated better deals for themselves, but I can say, it's very doable and not that difficult. You just have to have half an idea of idea you're doing and it's very possible. Hopefully this provides some inspiration/motivation for someone who might listen and otherwise get trampled on before getting here and receiving less than they should be getting in lifestyle, benefits, options and money. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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Changing employers within KSA is not simple. Bertonneau states that there is a special deal "only available for US citizens" Not all of us are in that category. Some of us are subjects of Her Britannic Majesty !
For most people on "business visas" termination can come at any time. I wonder how long the average TEFLer on a business visa lasts in Al-Saudiya. Months I would guess rather than years. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| bertonneau wrote: |
| I'm on a 5 year government business multiple entry visa that as stated is only for Americans. It was provided through one of the main visa agents/guys in the US that companies use to get many folks over here. |
Noted. It's specific to US professionals conducting repeat, long-term business with a Saudi company. However, like the short-term business visa, it still doesn't offer you any legal remedy under Saudi labor law if your sponsor decides to screw you on pay or terminate your services without notice. |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:21 pm Post subject: Re: Too little faith |
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| bertonneau wrote: |
| Everything I'm saying is true and not a fantasy and I'm sorry for the folks that haven't stood firm and negotiated better deals for themselves, but I can say, it's very doable and not that difficult. |
Adorable.
It's when you assert the terms of your experience can be others' that you engage fantasy. You're citing a recent exception for Americans and blathering about negogiation strategies. The thrust of my prior post was missed: You have no knowledge of the procedure for exit visas. A newbie can't secure them before arriving. What's worse, you're claiming to help others by advocating they defraud a ministry office. If you're a resident worker, the policy is to hold an iqama. In effect, you're skirting the terms of a newly made exception while shouting Gold Rush! It's inaccurate and irresponsible. |
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hash
Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn
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| Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:38 am Post subject: |
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| Deleted due to double posting. |
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Gulezar
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 483
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| Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| hash wrote: |
3. Finally, USA nationals should be a little careful about all this. I'm talking about your "residency" status as far as the IRS is concerned. If you're in KSA on a "non-residency" visa, how are you going to establish with the IRS that you're really living/working in KSA and are a resident of said country? If you can't, and I don't see how you can since KSA does not consider you a resident unless you have a real Iqama, your tax status will be such that you won't be able to claim income/housing tax exemptions. You can't be both a non-resident AND a resident concurrently. "Residency" (abroad) is the prime factor used by the IRS to establish a tax-payer's income tax exemption claims. (You claim it, you prove it) |
This MIGHT HAVE BEEN be why this special American visa was established. Most of the rich US oil business folks would need to declare their earnings, as they most likely are making over $100,000. However, if they had Saudi residency and had means to ship some funds to other accounts, it could be that they were getting out of paying US taxes. Who knows? It's just an idea. |
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hash
Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn
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| Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| Gulezar wrote: |
| hash wrote: |
3. Finally, USA nationals should be a little careful about all this. I'm talking about your "residency" status as far as the IRS is concerned. If you're in KSA on a "non-residency" visa, how are you going to establish with the IRS that you're really living/working in KSA and are a resident of said country? If you can't, and I don't see how you can since KSA does not consider you a resident unless you have a real Iqama, your tax status will be such that you won't be able to claim income/housing tax exemptions. You can't be both a non-resident AND a resident concurrently. "Residency" (abroad) is the prime factor used by the IRS to establish a tax-payer's income tax exemption claims. (You claim it, you prove it) |
This MIGHT HAVE BEEN be why this special American visa was established. Most of the rich US oil business folks would need to declare their earnings, as they most likely are making over $100,000. However, if they had Saudi residency and had means to ship some funds to other accounts, it could be that they were getting out of paying US taxes. Who knows? It's just an idea. |
Well, I actually DELETED the above post, but you were too fast for me. The reason I deleted was because it's a very complicated subject and I didn't want to get too involved in it. But since you beat me to the punch, let me add the following:
Of course, you can also claim the income/housing tax exemption on your tax return NOT ONLY by claiming residency overseas, but ALSO simply by BEING overseas for a certain minimum amount of days per year (330 days out of USA). This is usually the route people on a 1 year contract take. Nothing wrong with this route but it limits the amount of time you can be in the USA per year. With a KSA RESIDENCY visa, you can be in the USA nearly an unlimited amount of time so long as you continue to claim KSA residency and eventually return to KSA. (That's all I'm going to say on this subject).
Last edited by hash on Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:34 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| Gulezar wrote: |
| This MIGHT HAVE BEEN be why this special American visa was established. Most of the rich US oil business folks would need to declare their earnings, as they most likely are making over $100,000. However, if they had Saudi residency and had means to ship some funds to other accounts, it could be that they were getting out of paying US taxes. Who knows? It's just an idea. |
This visa is specific to American business professionals who are required to travel back and forth to KSA as a function of their job. Moreover, a businessman on this type of visa is employed by a US company and not the Saudi sponsor. His US employer pays his salary into a US bank account just as if he were in the States, and they handle his expenses while he's in KSA. In fact, he wouldn't be able to open a Saudi bank account since a biz visa doesn't allow for Saudi residency or employment. |
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hash
Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn
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| Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
This visa is specific to American business professionals who are required to travel back and forth to KSA as a function of their job. Moreover, a businessman on this type of visa is employed by a US company and not the Saudi sponsor. His US employer pays his salary into a US bank account just as if he were in the States, and they handle his expenses while he's in KSA. In fact, he wouldn't be able to open a Saudi bank account since a biz visa doesn't allow for Saudi residency or employment. |
That still leaves the question open, doesn't it, as to whether holders of this visa are eligible for the housing/income tax exemption. Everything points to a conclusion that they would not be which would make being in KSA almost a worthless proposition unless you were on a huge salary. (Talk about "feeling trapped")
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| hash wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| This visa is specific to American business professionals who are required to travel back and forth to KSA as a function of their job. Moreover, a businessman on this type of visa is employed by a US company and not the Saudi sponsor. His US employer pays his salary into a US bank account just as if he were in the States, and they handle his expenses while he's in KSA. In fact, he wouldn't be able to open a Saudi bank account since a biz visa doesn't allow for Saudi residency or employment. |
That still leaves the question open, doesn't it, as to whether holders of this visa are eligible for the housing/income tax exemption. Everything points to a conclusion that they would not be which would make being in KSA almost a worthless proposition unless you were on a huge salary. (Talk about "feeling trapped") |
I don't get your point about tax exemptions and KSA being worthless for business professionals unless there's a big salary involved. Businessmen/women, consultants, widget installers, etc., who work for US employers and travel as a normal function of their job, are not residents of the countries they visit. On the other, teachers (independent contractors) who say yes to a business visit visa and X salary do so on their own accord with the intent of staying in KSA for a year or more.
Last edited by nomad soul on Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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plumpy nut
Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652
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| Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: Then dont take the contract |
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| bertonneau wrote: |
| If you set terms for an employer and they wont accept them than you move on to the next employer. It's not bluster. It's the reality of any agreement ever. You negotiate whatever you do before you enter into something not after. There are plenty of jobs I've seen in Saudi that state a single entry visa. For me, that's unacceptable and so I move on to the next position, if you choose not to, again, that's your fault not the employers. There are plenty of employers here that will issue multiple entry visas as standard practice not the exception, but the rule they choose to do. If you choose to work for one that doesn't that's your fault not theirs. |
Saudi Arabia is not an example of "Rousseau's social contract". The Republic of Virtue does not exist in Saudi Arabia. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| "The Republic of Virtue" ? Where can we find it ? On the Big Rock Candy Mountain ! |
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