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seyz
Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Posts: 43
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 Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:19 am Post subject: Things to look out for with university contracts |
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I have recently been looking for university teaching positions in China and have since received several offers for positions. However, as suggested by some of the people who have been helping me out, I was advised to ask about what could potentially be red flags in a contract with a university. I have thus far been paying serious attention to teaching hours, accommodation, money that can be changed to foreign currency, vacation time off, etc. I was wondering if anyone would care to share anything that might be a major red flag with such a teaching contract and let me know anything that I should be aware of otherwise.
Thanks in advance |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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Lack
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:16 am Post subject: |
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Definitely specify about accommodation. You never know on that one. The contract might state the options of living on campus or in an apartment in the city, but when you get there they've done away with foreign teacher housing on campus.
Class load is another important one of course. Chances are you'll get incoming freshmen at some point and your hours will go way up. Not necessarily a bad thing, but for those hours might as well work at a training school.
Ask about summer/winter breaks. Exactly how long will they be? Most importantly, make sure the school will allow you to do temporary work and better yet specify that they will help you obtain it during the breaks. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| Lack wrote: |
Definitely specify about accommodation. You never know on that one. The contract might state the options of living on campus or in an apartment in the city, but when you get there they've done away with foreign teacher housing on campus.
Class load is another important one of course. Chances are you'll get incoming freshmen at some point and your hours will go way up. Not necessarily a bad thing, but for those hours might as well work at a training school.
Ask about summer/winter breaks. Exactly how long will they be? Most importantly, make sure the school will allow you to do temporary work and better yet specify that they will help you obtain it during the breaks. |
Public sector contracts have the max 20 hours clause although most schools I've known believe that 20 hours is averaged over the two semesters i.e if you get 12 hours pw in S1 don't bitch if you get 22 in S2.
I've never seen that enforced though.
I did 22 pw for a few months because a fellow teacher went home sick. Nearly killed me!
Breaks are standard in the public sector - not specific to you.
Better leave the question of other work until you get here.
Asking for help before signing, is expecting to be babied.
What you expect from your school is to look the other way if you do weekend work during the semester. |
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Hermosillo
Joined: 17 Jun 2014
Posts: 176
Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Look for stuff stating that the terms are subject to change.....or reduced pay during holidays. |
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Lack
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
Better leave the question of other work until you get here.
Asking for help before signing, is expecting to be babied.
What you expect from your school is to look the other way if you do weekend work during the semester. |
Nonsense. Better to be prepared before you sign and go. That's not asking to be babied; that's just common sense. In my current job I asked about extra work (especially during the breaks) beforehand, and they said it was fine. Even helped me set it up once I got here.
Not sure why you think they wouldn't just be openly OK with it. My part time work is teaching kids. It's no competition to the university I work for. Hence, there's no problem. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:22 am Post subject: |
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For a start many contracts have a no outside work as a standard clause.
That's my experience over 2 x vocationals and 1 tier one schools.
I've done mega privates, language schools, corporates and summer gigs and the operative message is: Don't rub the Chinese' nose in things.
A mindset that you are bestowing yourself on the oh so grateful Chinese doesn't get you far.
You may feel you've pulled it off, but further down the track you'll miss out.
Would you ask a prospective home-country employer at interview stage:
'Hey it's likely that I'll moonlight. Happy with that?' |
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Lack
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
For a start many contracts have a no outside work as a standard clause.
That's my experience over 2 x vocationals and 1 tier one schools.
I've done mega privates, language schools, corporates and summer gigs and the operative message is: Don't rub the Chinese' nose in things.
A mindset that you are bestowing yourself on the oh so grateful Chinese doesn't get you far.
You may feel you've pulled it off, but further down the track you'll miss out.
Would you ask a prospective home-country employer at interview stage:
'Hey it's likely that I'll moonlight. Happy with that?' |
Everything is negotiable in China. Many times that clause is there just because it is standard. They do it to cover their tails. In most cases it won't be enforced. But then again things change depending on what kind of outfit you work for.
I agree with your advice not to be haughty - which I am not. Not sure if that was aimed at me. I'm not suggesting anyone take such attitudes.
In my own country I might bring it up depending on the job and my needs. Lots of people do that for wage jobs, though, often balancing two jobs at the same time. As for corporate, salaried jobs, I don't know. |
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| Lack wrote: |
Everything is negotiable in China. Many times that clause is there just because it is standard. They do it to cover their tails. In most cases it won't be enforced. But then again things change depending on what kind of outfit you work for.
I agree with your advice not to be haughty - which I am not. Not sure if that was aimed at me. I'm not suggesting anyone take such attitudes.
In my own country I might bring it up depending on the job and my needs. Lots of people do that for wage jobs, though, often balancing two jobs at the same time. As for corporate, salaried jobs, I don't know. |
How long have you worked in China and what kinds of jobs have you worked? In another post you addressed working in a public university.
"That clause" is usually there because the employer means it. If your Chinese employer says "No outside work", he means it. You may have gotten away with working another job, but in all likelihood, if you were to tell him that you also work down the street, he won't like it. It could also be your undoing.
I Don't know what your home country is, but in the U.S., if one works any sort of responsible job, your employer won't like it either. Unlike in China, he can't fire you because of it unless there is a written company policy, but he'll find a reason to make you quit your second job. |
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Lack
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| OhBudPowellWhereArtThou wrote: |
How long have you worked in China and what kinds of jobs have you worked? In another post you addressed working in a public university. |
This is my second year in China. First job was at a training school. Now I teach at a university.
| Quote: |
| "That clause" is usually there because the employer means it. If your Chinese employer says "No outside work", he means it. You may have gotten away with working another job, but in all likelihood, if you were to tell him that you also work down the street, he won't like it. It could also be your undoing. |
It depends on the employer. In my case my assistant from the university told me I could do part time work and helped me set it up. Let's be real: Chinese employers care only about money. If what you're doing doesn't compete with their business, it doesn't matter to them.
| Quote: |
| I Don't know what your home country is, but in the U.S., if one works any sort of responsible job, your employer won't like it either. Unlike in China, he can't fire you because of it unless there is a written company policy, but he'll find a reason to make you quit your second job. |
I'm from the U.S. I haven't been in that situation myself, but I have had family members deal with it by bringing it up and asking for permission. As far as I know they didn't have a problem with it. |
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| Lack wrote: |
It depends on the employer. In my case my assistant from the university told me I could do part time work and helped me set it up. Let's be real: Chinese employers care only about money. If what you're doing doesn't compete with their business, it doesn't matter to them.
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Ah. Okay.Your FAO set you up with extra work. I've been there. You're working under the auspices of the FAO, who can make those sorts of decisions because the FAO is actually in charge of your work and is authorized to hire you. In this case, you are technically working for the university, and the other business concern is paying the FAO for your services. My first university gig was like that. I was farmed out to one school to fill out my schedule. After I hit the twelve hours (or maybe it was sixteen) per week minimum, all other jobs that I was farmed out to paid me overtime (a part of which went to my university).
That's the best situation.
Be very careful about other outside jobs, though. Not every company or school is authorized to hire foreigners. This is something about which your FAO is concerned, and it is something about which you should be concerned. If you do private tutoring without your FAO's knowledge and permission, keep it under the radar and be discreet. If you work for a language school on the side, you may find yourself in a pickle. You will be a lot more popular than the Chinese English teachers, and the CTs will complain. (And again, there's that old problem of the language school not being authorized to hire foreigners). I've been there too.
The same holds true for doing corporate work.
Since you're an American, you'll probably understand it in an American context. In the States, a legal foreign national who comes to work can't work for just any company. There are restrictions. Student visas have restrictions too. The same holds true for China.
Then again, Chinese law is very fluid, and enforcement varies from city to city. The fact remains, however, that your employment is tied to your school. I doubt that you could actually negotiate a second job with your FAO unless he/she is involved in some way. |
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