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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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 Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| RedLightning wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| RedLightning wrote: |
I've come upon countless job postings that call for teachers of Business English(Language centers as well as universities).
With 15 years of experience in sales and a Celta, I daresay you would strike as a much more attractive candidate than even most veteran ESL teachers.
To that end, I'd advise that you apply directly (forgo recruiters). |
And where might all those countless, high-paying business English opportunities for inexperienced teachers be? |
Employers that specifically seek out teachers with no experience you mean? There are few if any, I would imagine. My point though is that ESL differs a great deal from ESP. If the endpoint of a certain course is to convey business jargon to foreign business students, an individual possessing 15 years of business experience, coupled with a recognized teaching credential, would seem ideal(we can also assume that his sales background, in the very least, equates to whatever communicative skills we teachers pride ourselves on).
As to the opportunities I mentioned, at the moment I honestly cannot say where exactly they were located- I recall a fair amount here in the Middle East and even more throughout East Asia. |
I'm quite familiar with ESP domains having taught both business English and English for legal purposes elsewhere in the region, which entailed customizing the curriculum to include grammar in context along with creating syllabi, supplemental materials, and assessments. (I have an MA in Teaching as well as corporate and legal experience.) The OP, however, has zero teaching experience and shouldn't be given the impression that there are "countless" lucrative business English teaching opportunities in the Gulf for him/her to apply to. That said, I agree that China is likely the best option. |
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In the heat of the moment
Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 393
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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I'm quite familiar with ESP domains having taught both business English and English for legal purposes elsewhere in the region, which entailed customizing the curriculum to include grammar in context along with creating syllabi, supplemental materials, and assessments. (I have an MA in Teaching as well as corporate and legal experience.) The OP, however, has zero teaching experience and shouldn't be given the impression that there are "countless" lucrative business English teaching opportunities in the Gulf for him/her to apply to. That said, I agree that China is likely the best option.[/quote]
<Edited for context>
Nomad Soul, would you care to expunge further of your experiences in teaching business English in the Magic Kingdom? I ask as a somewhat experienced disciple of the arts of economics, and a teacher of English in his sixth year in this peninsular. I appreciate many economists, in particular Nouriel Roubini, but they won't have the hands on, ear to the grindstone experience you have. I worked in a corporate setting before, as have you, although my CV probably wouldn't be as interesting.
I feel I could give a lot more than I presently do, working in a university, as I can (I feel this is a time for a colloquialism) run rings around any finance graduate I meet. I appreciate those are strong words but even the most committed Austrian has been silent when they've heard my Keynesian-based views.
Maybe they were silent because they were shocked anyone could still hold those views? I don't know but I'd be happy to find out. I doubt working in finance in Saudi would always lead to an interesting conversation - it could be as dull as ditch water - but the search for truth and learning in Economics is never-ending. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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ex�punge
verb: expunge; 3rd person present: expunges; past tense: expunged; past participle: expunged; gerund or present participle: expunging
erase or remove completely (something unwanted or unpleasant).
"I�ve kind of expunged that period from my CV
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| Quote: |
| Nomad Soul, would you care to expunge further of your experiences in teaching business English in the Magic Kingdom? |
Dear nomad
I hope you won't completely erase your experiences in this respect. They're useful to others here. If you care to expound further upon them, some of us will certainly be interested.
Best,
spiral |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| "We will proceed to expropriate the expropriators and expunge the expungers," as Lenin might have said to the Cheka ! |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| RedLightning wrote: |
| (we can also assume that his sales background, in the very least, equates to whatever communicative skills we teachers pride ourselves on). |
Uh-huh. The royal we out and about assuming today?
The ignorance and absurdity of the above assertion is a sort of desperation produced by an itinerancy our vocation can both require and suffer.
Spiral, It is likely ItHotM's conflation of expunge and expound was jocular.
Lead on, NomadSoul |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| In the heat of the moment wrote: |
Nomad Soul, would you care to expunge further of your experiences in teaching business English in the Magic Kingdom? I ask as a somewhat experienced disciple of the arts of economics, and a teacher of English in his sixth year in this peninsular. I appreciate many economists, in particular Nouriel Roubini, but they won't have the hands on, ear to the grindstone experience you have. I worked in a corporate setting before, as have you, although my CV probably wouldn't be as interesting.
I feel I could give a lot more than I presently do, working in a university, as I can (I feel this is a time for a colloquialism) run rings around any finance graduate I meet. I appreciate those are strong words but even the most committed Austrian has been silent when they've heard my Keynesian-based views. |
Uh, I'd prefer to retain my teaching experiences rather than expunge them. 
As I mentioned, I taught English for Specific Purposes (ESP) elsewhere in the Mid East and not in KSA. My students were all working professionals; some with graduate and law degrees and one doctorate holder. Regardless, ESP isn't the same as teaching business, econ, finance, aviation, hospitality, customer service, etc., as general content or academic subjects. You might check out this ESP overview for a sense of what it entails. By the way, although curriculum design was required for my degree, I also took ESP design as an elective and found it invaluable when designing the English for legal purposes course from scratch. |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| Great cite/link. Two points: Years and years ago, my professors told me the higher paying contracts were ESP materials-- the example was mineral extraction and training to operate machinery. Are you averse to disclosing if the pay is better and roughly by what factor compared to the KSA position? And, more light-heartedly: Law degree holders are prone to inform anyone their degree is a doctorate of jurisprudence. I was quickly corrected on the matter a long time ago. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| buravirgil wrote: |
| Years and years ago, my professors told me the higher paying contracts were ESP materials-- the example was mineral extraction and training to operate machinery. Are you averse to disclosing if the pay is better and roughly by what factor compared to the KSA position? |
In my situation, salary was commensurate with my qualifications, although I got a bit extra for the ESP legal course because I was the only instructor who had the background to teach it. I was in a higher ed English language program, but ESP trainers/teachers in specialized, high-demand industries (e.g., aviation, oil/gas, medicine, safety/security, shipping, maritime training, construction, etc.) via Aramco, Raytheon, ExxonMobil, Maersk, and others, definitely earn lucrative salaries even if they work in tandem with subject matter experts (SMEs). |
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RedLightning
Joined: 08 Aug 2015
Posts: 137
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| RedLightning wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| RedLightning wrote: |
I've come upon countless job postings that call for teachers of Business English(Language centers as well as universities).
With 15 years of experience in sales and a Celta, I daresay you would strike as a much more attractive candidate than even most veteran ESL teachers.
To that end, I'd advise that you apply directly (forgo recruiters). |
And where might all those countless, high-paying business English opportunities for inexperienced teachers be? |
Employers that specifically seek out teachers with no experience you mean? There are few if any, I would imagine. My point though is that ESL differs a great deal from ESP. If the endpoint of a certain course is to convey business jargon to foreign business students, an individual possessing 15 years of business experience, coupled with a recognized teaching credential, would seem ideal(we can also assume that his sales background, in the very least, equates to whatever communicative skills we teachers pride ourselves on).
As to the opportunities I mentioned, at the moment I honestly cannot say where exactly they were located- I recall a fair amount here in the Middle East and even more throughout East Asia. |
I'm quite familiar with ESP domains having taught both business English and English for legal purposes elsewhere in the region, which entailed customizing the curriculum to include grammar in context along with creating syllabi, supplemental materials, and assessments. (I have an MA in Teaching as well as corporate and legal experience.) The OP, however, has zero teaching experience and shouldn't be given the impression that there are "countless" lucrative business English teaching opportunities in the Gulf for him/her to apply to. That said, I agree that China is likely the best option. |
I congratulate you on both your qualifications and experience- quite impressive. However, given the frequency of your posting on this forum, I assumed your familiarity with the subject; citing the difference was used more as a transitional tool than anything else(availability of jobs to the overarching theme of my post). I agree that the OP should not be misled with respect to salary prospects and to that end I made no such attempt. As we both agree, the best bet seems to be China/Korea, but given the stated preference for the Middle East, I thought it would go appreciated by the OP to know there do indeed exist opportunities here (if it satisfies, I told the OP in a pm that this may require taking a gamble).
Regards |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| RedLightning wrote: |
| If the endpoint of a certain course is to convey business jargon to foreign business students, an individual possessing 15 years of business experience, coupled with a recognized teaching credential, would seem ideal(we can also assume that his sales background, in the very least, equates to whatever communicative skills we teachers pride ourselves on). |
Communicative skills?
Are you conflating technique with a personality trait? At any rate, the transactional character of sales and that of teaching are worlds apart in orientation, language, and purpose. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| RedLightning wrote: |
| As we both agree, the best bet seems to be China/Korea, but given the stated preference for the Middle East, I thought it would go appreciated by the OP to know there do indeed exist opportunities here (if it satisfies, I told the OP in a pm that this may require taking a gamble). |
I don't know about SK, given the OP's age of 49, which is why I mentioned newbie-friendly China as a main option. However, for the Gulf, I still think the OP should focus on promoting him/herself as an experienced marketing exec for mainstream employment opportunities instead of trying to get an entry-level TEFL job. Anyway... |
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