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brnrd
Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 53
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 Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:08 pm Post subject: In regards to the Business Visa |
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Is a Business Visa specific to one invitee/school ? Or is it a generalized entry into Saudi Arabia for "business" reasons?
My present story aside, I've just seen an advert this morning that read:
Immediate Start I'll pop over ASAP?
Saudi Arabia (Dammam)
12000 SAR
Recruiter (in-house or out?) American Academy
Business Class Visa: Full costs reimbursed in your first pay salary.
And I thought my situation was bad.Meaning promised 3 mo work visa,but get Business Visa(Alluding to another thread).Here they're boldly stating a business visa,and YOU pay, then,you know, we'll owe you one!
Clearly, it seems these mid-year jobs are crops left over after the harvest.
Cheers,
Willie |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| brnrd wrote: |
| Is a Business Visa specific to one invitee/school ? Or is it a generalized entry into Saudi Arabia for "business" reasons? |
Since Saudi Arabia uses a sponsorship (kafala) system, all expat visas are tied to a sponsor, which could be an individual, a company, or the government. The sponsor is indicated on the visa, iqama, and muqeem card.
I don't know you mean by "generalized" entry, but a business visit visa is for a short-term visit to KSA in order to conduct business with the sponsor (e.g., consult, sell widgets, supervise installation of the widgets, train staff on the widgets, etc.). |
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brnrd
Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Nomad,
By generalized, I was thinking of a non-specific visa, where you could enter,and do ...say multiple "business" transactions - 5 days arranging to sell your oil pipes to Mobil, and the following week a business deal to buy 5 tons of dates.
I was on a business visa for about 6 years in the last country I taught in.It all started with the BC not able to supply visas for IELTS examiners,so many/most of us got 6 month business visas.Naturally, over time these became harder and more expensive to get.Come to think of it, they may have been issued for a particular business,but to us - no;we used them for whatever work - Radio(CRI),teaching,examining etc...
Cheers,
William |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Entering Saudi is very difficult. You will need a visa provided by your sponsoring employer. The catch is which visa they will decide to get you. (you have little or no choice in this option) They will basically own you until you leave the country.
The choice is between the short-term visa, which is actually illegal to teach on though many are doing it, which requires monthly visa runs often at your expense... or the legal work visa leading to whatever they are calling the labor card these days. If you don't take a significant amount of time (up to months) chasing papers and getting a medical, it is not a legal work visa.
Your option is to take what they offer or not take the job. Don't believe them if they say that you will come in on the first option and they will change it soon... they won't and can't.
Who pays usually depends on the employer... and there is really nothing more to say about it. There are dozens of threads on the advantages and disadvantages of the two options.
VS |
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murray1978
Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 84
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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or the legal work visa leading to whatever they are calling the labor card these days. If you don't take a significant amount of time (up to months) chasing papers and getting a medical, it is not a legal work visa.
If you have your documents already finished and with an agent, does it take months to get an Igama? I sent my documents last week to an agent in Canada and was wondering how long the legal work visa will take?
Last edited by murray1978 on Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| brnrd wrote: |
Dear Nomad,
By generalized, I was thinking of a non-specific visa, where you could enter,and do ...say multiple "business" transactions - 5 days arranging to sell your oil pipes to Mobil, and the following week a business deal to buy 5 tons of dates. |
What would your employer back home want with 5 tons of dates or 10 dozen magic flying carpets or 1000 gallons of camel's milk or whatever if you're in KSA to sell their oil pipes? Your example is rather unrealistic in terms of who and what the biz visit visa is intended for.
Think of it this way: You work in sales at Acme Pipes in Canada, and they want to send you to KSA to sell their primo oil pipes to the Saudi government. The Saudi govt contracts directly with Acme to sponsor you on a biz visit visa so that you can enter the country to conduct business on behalf of Acme. Either Acme or the Saudi govt is covering the costs for your round-trip flights as well as meals, lodging, ground transportation, etc., while you're in KSA. You sell the pipes and then fly back to Canada and to your desk at Acme. But in terms of the scenario you gave about multiple business transactions with different entities, since your visa is through your employer (Acme), the expectation is that you not conduct business for yourself or other companies on the side. You're under Saudi sponsorship for one specific purpose. |
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brnrd
Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:25 am Post subject: |
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Dear Nomad,
That's probably because I have never been in Saudi Arabia,or for that matter the Middle East.Closest I ever got was Xinjiang in the far west of China.Anyway...
How could my Business Visa be "illegal" ? It was issue by the Ottawa embassy.It says in English "Teacher" and the name of the school,yet in Arabic,so I've been told, for business. I'm a "Teacher" going to Saudi Arabia to do business? The visa is itself self-contradicting then.
WW |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| Welcome to Saudi Arabia. A close study of "Alice in Wonderland" is suggested for orientation. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:03 am Post subject: |
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Catch-22 is one I would also recommend. 
Regards,
John |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| brnrd wrote: |
| How could my Business Visa be "illegal" ? It was issue by the Ottawa embassy.It says in English "Teacher" and the name of the school,yet in Arabic,so I've been told, for business. I'm a "Teacher" going to Saudi Arabia to do business? The visa is itself self-contradicting then. |
The visa itself isn't illegal; it's the wrong type of visa for EFL teachers who expect to be "employed" for at least a year by a Saudi entity. Some Saudi companies request biz visit visas for job applicants because this visa type doesn't take a lot of time to process and therefore, teachers get into KSA quickly and soon working to earn money for the company. The main issue is that visit visa holders are not given employment or residence status in KSA. |
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brnrd
Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:33 am Post subject: |
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Dear John,
"The main issue is that visit visa holders are not given employment or residence status in KSA."
And what are the consequences of that status, or lack of status?
So would they deduct my visa costs and/or flight costs from my salary? I searched the thread history for "visa runs" to see experiences, costs etc..but turned up nothing.
BTW, I am to have a 2nd interview for another job this week, but I searched Saudi embassy site in Ottawa,and I can't proceed with this particular job,and maybe getting a proper visa,because I already have an active visa in my passport.
Cheers,
Willie |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| brnrd wrote: |
Dear John,
"The main issue is that visit visa holders are not given employment or residence status in KSA."
And what are the consequences of that status, or lack of status?
So would they deduct my visa costs and/or flight costs from my salary? I searched the thread history for "visa runs" to see experiences, costs etc..but turned up nothing.
BTW, I am to have a 2nd interview for another job this week, but I searched Saudi embassy site in Ottawa,and I can't proceed with this particular job,and maybe getting a proper visa,because I already have an active visa in my passport. |
Your question is directed to me since I made that statement.
See the following:
90 days Business's visa....
Visitor / Business Visa ...conversion
As for deductions or reimbursements for biz visit visa runs, no one can say; it depends on your particular sponsor.
If you're still looking at jobs in KSA, research the employer before applying and ask the right questions during interviews. By the way, the visa in your passport will expire 90 days from issuance unless you ask your sponsor to cancel it immediately. |
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hash
Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:32 am Post subject: |
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There's also the vital question, almost always overlooked, as to your legal employment STATUS for those going to KSA on a "business" visa. That is to say, are you somebody's EMPLOYEE? Or are you SELF-EMPLOYED working as an INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR?
I think this question is not asked because of the tricky word SPONSOR. Most people assume the sponsor is the employer, but if you have a "business visa" your sponsor is not really your employer - he's simply facilitating your entry into the Kingdom. So either someone ELSE is your employer or you're going to KSA as an independent contractor which is not a good position to be in, I don't think.
Is anyone "responsible" for your well-being while in KSA? If you have an accident, is anyone going to look after you? If you land in jail, for one reason or another, is anyone going to try to get you out?
I would not ever go to KSA unless I was someone's 100% employEE and was given housing to boot. The idea of "looking around" for housing in a totally alien (and often hostile) environment is out and out absurd. Getting a "housing allowance" is not the point....running around like a donkey trying to find a place is the point. Any employER who subjects his new employees to this kind of treatment shows what little importance the new employee really has in the scheme of things. |
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brnrd
Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks guys!
Here's the complete synopsis of the contract:
Job title: English Language Instructor
Starting date: Upon arrival
Probation period: 3 months/90 days
Basic salary: 11,200 SR /$3000 (USD)
Accommodation: Provided by company
Transportation: Provided by company
Medical insurance: Covered as per company policy
Annual vacation: 30 days paid holiday after completion of 11 months
Tickets: Round-trip (Once a year)
Working hours: 40 hours per week
Work location: Jeddah University,Saudi Arabia
Type of visa: Work Visit Visa
So A, T and M provided by International Institute for Languages.I presume.
Cheers,
William |
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hash
Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| brnrd wrote: |
Thanks guys!
Here's the complete synopsis of the contract:
Job title: English Language Instructor
Starting date: Upon arrival (Are you going to sign a contract upon arrival? With whom?)
Probation period: 3 months/90 days....standard (works both ways, btw.)
Basic salary: 11,200 SR /$3000 (USD)....sorry, but that's almost peanuts.
Accommodation: Provided by company...WHICH "company"? (US entity? Saudi entity?) Will it ready for you upon arrival or will you be expected to "find" your own place eventually???
Transportation: Provided by company.....meaning what? WHICH COMPANY?
Medical insurance: Covered as per company policy.....Which is what? AGAIN, WHICH COMPANY...WHAT'S THE NAME AND LEGAL PLACE OF INCORPORATION? (Maybe you don't care, of course).
Annual vacation: 30 days paid holiday after completion of 11 months...that's it?
Tickets: Round-trip (Once a year)
Working hours: 40 hours per week....what's important is how many CONTACT hours you teach plus number of students plus what materials?
Work location: Jeddah University,Saudi Arabia
Type of visa: Work Visit Visa......So that means you WON'T get an Iqaama/Muqeem.
WHO IS YOUR EMPLOYER? WHO PAYS YOU? All they say is "where" you'll work. The fact that your visa will be a "work visit visa" means you'll be working illegally. Ask whomever you're dealing with about this. ASK THEM IF YOU WILL EVENTUALLY GET A MUQEEM (legal RESIDENT status)? If not (or if they pretend not to know), consider the possible unsavory consequences.
I presume.....Don't presume anything....Find out, ask and know for sure.
You need to find out more specific details.....they're telling you very little of substance..........almost nothing except the very basics. There are reasons this is how they're approaching you (none of them good).. Are you satisfied with that?
Cheers,
William |
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