|
Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Shakey
Joined: 29 Aug 2014 Posts: 199
|
Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
mitsui wrote: |
I would never call Japanese honest. So two-faced, people who look you right in the eye and lie to you.
Such dishonesty all in the name of preserving the wa.
I think naturally passive-aggressive people can fit in here. |
I wish Daves had a "Thumbs Up" vote for posts. This is the reality.
Westerners are raised to tell the truth, but the Japanese taught me to lie like a pro - and with no regrets. Ha, aha! |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
mitsui
Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 1562 Location: Kawasaki
|
Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks.
I am a straight shooter from New York.
No wonder I don't get any love in my current job.
It is too old school, with the hierarchy that cannot change or adapt.
Change is too scary for people. And so people who advocate change get shunned.
Preparing students for university matters little.
Just go through the motions. Pretend to work hard.
I read about Finnish education and I can see how many high schools here are so far behind.
Most students don't study. Nobody cares. Clubs are all that matter.
Make them show up early for morning practice.
Make them tired to make them obedient. Sounds like military training, and it is a legacy from before the war.
See them sleep in English class. If you get annoyed you are too strict.
Indeed. It is the Christian heritage even for someone somewhat secular like myself.
The dishonesty I cannot accept.
I am too serious, I guess. People who act like a clown, ham it up and try to get kids "excited" about learning get the jobs.
At work there is an unstated rule to play a role. I guess when one is younger
you can do it but as you get older it gets boring. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
RM1983
Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 360
|
Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Brits can do passive-aggressive and cliquey very well  |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 1693 Location: Saudi Arabia
|
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:57 am Post subject: response |
|
|
Quote: |
I think you aren't paying attention to what we are saying Smile
The standard salary is around $2000 a month yes, but you aren't figuring on what it would take to save half of your wage. I must pay half of mine out in rent, taxes and insurance. If you move apartment, you have to pay about 3 months rent up front and a trip home for a week could be about one month's all in.
Then imagine if you had a family here |
Going by what you say, if you make a minimum salary of $2000 dollars (equivalent) in Japanese yen, then you would be paying out half of that in rent and other expenses, so you would be left with $1000 dollars to 'play around with' - the question I have is how much one can actually save on that minimum Japanese salary, once you have factored in your costs. I am thinking at least $500 equivalent in Japanese yen, which is not a lot but still $6000 a year. Do the Japanese jobs provide air tickets home each year? This is pretty much standard in China.
In addition, most foreign teachers in China earn around $1000 or less per month from their low stress uni jobs, but many earn that much again with privates....so they augment their salaries quite a bit. Are there many opportunities in Japan to do the same (privates, left right and center?). In China there are so many opportunities for privates, but many of those are for kids' classes, and if you are not an 'edutainer' then it might not be worth the hassle and stress.....of being a 'dancing panda' which I am not, by the way. Adult classes are the way to go, as well as company classes. There is a whole 'gray area' in China, which has not really been regulated, and which many foreigners take advantage of.
Based, on what many of you are saying, I am probably looking at Japan through rose tinted spectacles, but I still would like to pursue my aim of going there and working there, despite the reality which shows it might be very difficult for older teachers to have a realistic chance of working there.
Mitsui and other posters have alluded to the difficulties gaijin face in Japan, but many of us still want to go there. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Shakey
Joined: 29 Aug 2014 Posts: 199
|
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:19 am Post subject: Re: response |
|
|
ghost wrote: |
Based, on what many of you are saying, I am probably looking at Japan through rose tinted spectacles, but I still would like to pursue my aim of going there and working there, despite the reality which shows it might be very difficult for older teachers to have a realistic chance of working there.
Mitsui and other posters have alluded to the difficulties gaijin face in Japan, but many of us still want to go there. |
You should just pull the trigger and come, then. You might luck it, and get a university teaching position that pays 7 million ~ 8 million Yen a year with a light weekly schedule and only teach 7 months out of the year.
I know a Canadian woman who was hired this year at a university on a contract who is 68. She retired 3 years ago from full time teaching. However, she had contacts in Japan.
A lot of the older people that I see teaching in Tokyo string together several part-time positions, but they have been in Japan for many years.
Neither of these scenarios would apply to you, though, since you are trying to get in from the outside and without any connections.
Hey, have you ever watched the You Tube video titled, "Barry vs. Japan"? It's kind of funny, but sad at the same time. Even young twenty-dumbthings are finding it hard to break into Japan. The eikaiwa and ALT companies chew them up and spit them out. They really are abusive places to work.
You are a commodity to be used up.
But come. Check it out for yourself. Only you will know if it meets your expectations or not.
I bet you're going to have to spend a lot of your own money, though, if you want to give Japan a shot. Taking trains and getting into an apartment, or even a guest house, will require a lot of start up money in Japan. It is not like Korea or China where schools often provide housing to teachers. So you will take a big hit right away on housing and daily transportation.
Bring $5,000 if you really want to take a shot at it. And that does not guarantee you success. You might blow several thousand dollars running around looking for work and not even find anything.
Last edited by Shakey on Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Rooster.
Joined: 13 Mar 2012 Posts: 247
|
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
Just do it. I think you'did enjoy it from what you've said. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 1693 Location: Saudi Arabia
|
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:00 am Post subject: response |
|
|
Quote: |
You should just pull the trigger and come, then. You might luck it, and get a university teaching position that pays 7 million ~ 8 million Yen a year with a light weekly schedule and only teach 7 months out of the year. |
A question, can one come to Japan on a tourist visa, get a job offer in Japan, while there on the tourist visa, and convert that into a work visa for Japan, or does one have to return home and do the paperwork there?
Right now, I have work and contracts in China, so I cannot just up and leave. In addition, I have a contact in Japan, who posts here, who gives me advice through the pm function, so I will continue doing things that way.
I have not yet given up hope. Some people, love China, other people hate China, and in fact, many teachers do 'runners' (up and leave) from China, from many universities, because they just cannot take the culture shock, the noise, the pollution, the chaos in the roads and everywhere else, and other irritants. I am in China, for pragmatic reasons - number one, is because it was the only place which offered me a job, right away after losing my job in Saudi Arabia. In China, there is so much work because the country is so vast.
China also gives me the chance to improve my Mandarin Chinese, although where I live, they speak an incomprehensible (even to other Chinese) local language called 'Chaoshan hua' - which has absolutely no connection, no connection - to Chinese Mandarin. No connection. But everyone speaks Mandarin, but the chances of practice are greatly reduced here, because the locals speak their local language. In Japan, I think, Japanese is spoken everywhere from Kyushu to Hokkaido, and it is Japanese, understandable to everyone. This makes Japan the most homogenous country in the world. Please correct me if I am wrong on that.
I met a few teachers in Saudi who had worked in Japan for many years, yet only a few of those teachers spoke decent level Japanese, so I thought that motivation or the lack thereof, was probably the deciding factor in whether people learned Japanese or not. I think the opportunities are there.
I was based in Fukuoka, and there are a lot of foreigners there, and opportunities to learn Japanese - even for free in some cases. There are also many language exchanges.
Forgive me for the rambling - but back to the original point - can one come to Japan and try to set up and get a job, and then stay in Japan - without having to go back to one's home country?
Ghost in China |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
kpjf

Joined: 18 Jan 2012 Posts: 385
|
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yes, Finland has an excellent reputation for their education system and has been deemed "best" for several years. But, let's look some data:
PISA top 10 reading
1. Shanghai
2. Hong Kong
3. Singapore
4. Japan
5. South Korea
6. Finland
7. Ireland
8. Taiwan
9. Canada
10. Poland
23. UK
24. USA
See, Japan is higher than Finland, and look how low the UK and USA are.
PISA top 10 maths
1. Shanghai (China)
2. Singapore
3. Hong Kong
4. Taiwan
5. South Korea
6. Macao (China)
7. Japan
8. Liechtenstein
9. Switzerland
10. Netherlands
12. Finland
26. UK
36. USA
See, Japan beats Finland again. And USA in a very low position.
Now, let's take a look at rankings based on maths and science, at age 15
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32608772
1. Singapore
2. Hong Kong
3. South Korea
4. Japan
4. Taiwan
6. Finland
As we can clearly see Japan is up there.
I can understand it's frustrating if your students are sleeping/unengaged/uninterested in your ENGLISH class, but that doesn't mean we can claim the whole education system in a country sucks. Which language did you learn in high school? Did you like it? How many of us TEFLers actually learnt a foreign language in high school and still speak that language today? Why should Japanese kids be interested in learning English, especially when they're forced to do it?
Quote: |
I am too serious, I guess. People who act like a clown, ham it up and try to get kids "excited" about learning get the jobs.
At work there is an unstated rule to play a role. I guess when one is younger
you can do it but as you get older it gets boring |
Do you mean you don't actually try to get kids "excited" about learning English? Not sure by your wording. Can you clarify? Every teacher, young or old needs to, at the very least, try to engage kids and get them interested in their subject. I'm not talking about being a clown here. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 1693 Location: Saudi Arabia
|
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:03 pm Post subject: Shanghai |
|
|
Note that the stats about Shanghai (China) are not representative of China in general. The Shanghai stats are based on a very select group of schools in Shanghai, China, which 'recruit' the best students in the area, the very top students in Math and Science attend those schools, and pay a high price to do so. They are like those old style sports people in China, who trained (from a young age) practically 24/7 - all with the aim of producing champions, and in this case it is champions in Math and Science, and the method revolves mainly around repetition, repetition, repetition...this is the Chinese style.
At my university, most students report that they do not like Math (or Maths to the Brits...) - and that the myth about Chinese students loving Math and having an aptitude for Math is just that - a myth.
Repetition and rote learning can produce good results, but in the overall scheme of things, there are shortcomings. U.S. universities have discovered that, when Chinese students find some courses too challenging, when those courses demand that those students 'think outside the box.' Chinese students, in general, have serious shortcomings, when it comes to 'thinking outside the box' - more on that in a future post.
I am here in China, and I see examples of this every day, every day. It is frustrating, as a foreigner, to deal with this.
Ghost in China |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007 Posts: 1003 Location: US
|
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: response |
|
|
ghost wrote: |
the question I have is how much one can actually save on that minimum Japanese salary, once you have factored in your costs. I am thinking at least $500 equivalent in Japanese yen, which is not a lot but still $6000 a year. |
On the salary you indicated, you may be able to save that much if you live frugally, cook meals at home, and don't travel.
Quote: |
Do the Japanese jobs provide air tickets home each year? This is pretty much standard in China. |
I've never heard of an employer in Japan paying for flights each year. Some employers used to pay for for the initial ticket, but that is rare nowadays.
Quote: |
In addition, most foreign teachers in China earn around $1000 or less per month from their low stress uni jobs, but many earn that much again with privates....so they augment their salaries quite a bit. Are there many opportunities in Japan to do the same (privates, left right and center?). |
There are some opportunities for private lessons, but your available time is limited because your 'day' job will be a full-time job and require full-time hours. Also, it can take a while to find privates in Japan. You won't double your salary with privates in Japan. You may be able to make some extra spending money.
Quote: |
In China there are so many opportunities for privates, but many of those are for kids' classes, and if you are not an 'edutainer' then it might not be worth the hassle and stress.....of being a 'dancing panda' which I am not, by the way. |
In my experience, private lessons in Japan are mostly with adults. There are some with kids, but mostly one-on-one or very small group, so not as much 'dancing panda' role.
Quote: |
can one come to Japan and try to set up and get a job, and then stay in Japan - without having to go back to one's home country? |
The short answer is "yes," in terms of visa process.
The longer answer is that you should be prepared to spend a good amount of money on the venture, with no guarantee of success. Setup costs in Japan can be expensive, and, as you said, your age will make it more difficult to find something. The $5000 figure that someone else suggested seems about right. If you are not picky about location, you may have better luck (though possibly more expenses due to traveling for interviews). |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Rooster.
Joined: 13 Mar 2012 Posts: 247
|
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You can look for a job on a tourist visa, some do, but you're not supposed to. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
kpjf

Joined: 18 Jan 2012 Posts: 385
|
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: Shanghai |
|
|
Ghost in China,
Yes, indeed. I wondered why they had a list of countries, yet Shanghai. Like you say if they've been selected in such a way of course they'll excel at it. But, my focus had been on Japan to show it's not that bad a country in terms of education.
Anyway, I don't think they should be allowed to just randomly stick in one city. After-all we could just choose the best performing region/city in the varying countries to give better results which does not reflect the country as a whole.
And, yes, the lack of critical thinking of Chinese students has almost become a cliché nowadays unfortunately. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
mitsui
Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 1562 Location: Kawasaki
|
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
Anyone who has taught in Japan knows what I talk about.
Ghost, it is funny that the way you compare the two countries is what some right-wing people would say.
Rudeness is obvious in China, but less so here.
The Japanese can think they are better than the other Asian countries.
The Koreans and the Chinese are the main source of their ire, but the Russians get some too. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007 Posts: 1003 Location: US
|
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:08 am Post subject: Re: Shanghai |
|
|
kpjf wrote: |
Yes, indeed. I wondered why they had a list of countries, yet Shanghai. |
I had assumed they had "Shanghai" so that they could also include "Hong Kong" and "Taiwan". If they had said "China" and then listed Hong Kong and Taiwan separately, it would imply that those are not part of China, which some people might object to. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
kpjf

Joined: 18 Jan 2012 Posts: 385
|
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: Shanghai |
|
|
rtm wrote: |
kpjf wrote: |
Yes, indeed. I wondered why they had a list of countries, yet Shanghai. |
I had assumed they had "Shanghai" so that they could also include "Hong Kong" and "Taiwan". If they had said "China" and then listed Hong Kong and Taiwan separately, it would imply that those are not part of China, which some people might object to. |
Couldn't we also argue the exact opposite? I don't think many Taiwanese/HKers would be happy at being labelled China! At least the ones I know. For instance, Taiwan and Hong Kong have their own passports. Couldn't they have just put their official names in brackets? Like this:
China (People's Republic of China)
Taiwan (Republic of China)
HK (Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of the People's Republic of China) |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling. Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|