Job Discussion Forums

[oyanlan]

OK, my situation:
I work for a non legit agency that hires teachers and then ships them out to schools all over my city. I'm given random classes that I may never see again. I have alot less hours now due to SARS and they are trying to compromise my pay with promises of more lucritive summer language programmes. (I havent agreed anything yet). Also, all my extra work has dried up.
My question:
Should I stay and see if this summer thing works out and then move to another school when my contract ends(august)?
Or, should I try and find a better job? With this SARS business, is it possible that these summer programmes will be cancelled and I'll be left high and dry. My school has just sorted out my Z visa. Do I have a leg to stand on even if I get a better job.?
Simple answers to simple questions please and please dont totally slate me if I'm being naiive. Thanks

[Bill Shagley]

Not a leg.
If they can organize the visa then they are legitimate. Sometimes agency's may get their visas from other schools but this is legitimate if there is an agreement in place and if the authorities are ok with it. I have seen it many times.If they have organized your visa then you can only work for them and cannot just take off. If you take off you can be detained,fined and deported. No school can employ you without a release letter from your original school. Typically, summer programmes will not provide you with a real visa either, as it is only short term work.

However, if the original school gives you a visa they must pay you whether you work or not. The visa gives you rights too.

You are one of thousands who travel to China without being fully aware of their rights or responsibilities. I see it everyday. Get comfortable where you are. All visa information is computerized now. You can only leave if you get cheated after the day your visa becomes valid.

[oyanlan]

Ok. I was vaguely aware of that, the school has to pay me but I have no classes but I made most of my money through overtime but seeing as it has dried up I'm slightly struggling at the moment. I have a feeling that I'm costing the school more money than they are making and so, thought could use this to leave and get another job (seeing as the situation doesnt look like it will improve) What do you think?

[Roger]

Your situation is a bit opaque. You said you are being loaned out to schools by an agent. Agents don't normally procure you a visa. If your agent has done this, then he should run classes that you teach. Loaning you out to other schools may be done by many, but I doubt it is legal.
Such situations arise when schools don't know the ropes of hiring someone. You might shed some light on the matter by telling us what kinds of schools employ you.
Agents normally place you with a public school for the entire term, in which case you would not need to fear much as the state would be paying your salary.
But if your agent loans you out to private institutes, then money is all-important. If they are not making any profits they are not likely to keep you on their payroll.
Being an II you have absolutely no recourse to any legal protection! They are very likely to pocket your airfare as well!

[leslie]

Bye

[oyanlan]

To Roger. My school/agency has been hiring teachers for years and I'm being shipped out to private schools. The other teachers, who have been here for a while now are very happy and secure and are my friends so thats a major comfort. One of them, who is the schools biggest asset is a very good friend and steps in when the need arises so I dont think the school would mess with me too much when the question is pay or being fired at a moments notice. My visa- I dont really care where it came from but I'm sure it wasnt through the normal channels. All that matters is that I have one. Hope I anawered your questions, thanks for your reply.

To Leslie. Thanks for your reply. Your comment was exactly what I was thinking, hense posting the question on the forum. There seems to be two sides to this, on one side there are schools closing and student numbers are dropping but on the other hand people are also saying that there is a demand for teachers as so many are leaving. Part of my question is, whats the story? Are we becoming redundant or more valueable with this SARS business.

[chinasyndrome]

The SARS cap isn't 'one size fits all'. There are still pockets around China where, to date, relative safety seems to be okay.

In my 'hometown', Shantou, 2 early deaths and 7 infections to date. No new infections for 26 days. There was a scare last week when a worker at Walmart 'got SARS' and they closed for a day. He had a head cold.

Some of the smaller cities in this area are so far unaffected. We have the main schools as well as 2 new campuses and a 3rd opening soon. Because the threat here is low-level, there isn't the amount of panic being experienced as there is in other and harder-hit areas. That could change in a second, however.

In terms of whether it makes FTs redundant or more in demand, I'd say neither. If I can't attract more teachers I'll go with what I've got until the panic moves on. At the same time, I have no intention of offering crazy money or preferential treatment to people who are unknown quantities. Start on a month's trial, earn the right to a pay rise and promotion just like everyone else, or accept that your agreed salary will be paid promptly for the life of your contract. Business as usual.

I'm not going to lower the bar on recruiting procedures or standards, and I can tell you that quite a few of the recent candidates I've spoken to have some strange ideas on what constitutes work (you know, that yucky thing you do between extended holidays and pub crawls). I think that those foreign managers who are responsible for recruiting (at least the ones I know around China) are holding to the standard process for good reason. A lot can happen in 6 months or a year. If SARS hits ALL areas hard few FTs will, understandably, keep their end of the contract. If it doesn't, we lock our schools into deals that would never have seen the light of day pre-SARS. My folks are well-paid with great benefits and bonuses. If I bring in someone who gets more for less, especially if they don't deserve it, there goes my credibility with the team. Interestingly, I've recently involved team members in the recruitment process and have found that they're tougher than me.

So from Shantou, business as usual. We'll downsize before we let SARS become a negotiating tool.

On a final note, I touched base with some Canadian ESL teachers I know - 2nd worst-hit country - and asked about teacher salaries there. It's a non-issue. No one is even thinking that thought. I think it all comes back to risk evaluation and personal decisions about the safety you can expect in a developing country with an immature health system and reporting procedures that leave a lot to be desired.

Cheers, and I hope you, yours and everyone around you stays healthy.

Les Harrison
Shantou

[oyanlan]

Hi Les. I didnt mean to sound like I was trying to take advantage of the current situation by trying to up the price. I was wondering if I was in a better position to be more picky about my options. Cheers for the reply though. Good luck, Niamh

[chinasyndrome]

Niamh!

I wasn't aiming any comment at you! I understood you're meaning - sorry if mine came across badly. That can happen when you can't hear 'tone of voice' - a devil of e-talking.

I think the salary thing can go 2 possible ways. Potentially, for those staying (and assuming less are coming), I won't be surprised if some schools - the dodgey ones - use it as a bludgeon. 'I can't pay you as much, take less or leave.' This could make for some short term volatility in the market. Unlikely, I think, at least in a big and organised way, but possible.

See, if they know you really want to stay, but there are travel restrictions and quarantines to go through if you change schools... And what if it happens at more than 1 school you go to work for? You could spend your life and money in difficult travel and quarantines, which the new school may not pay for.

This was suggested to me by a friend up north, who was asked about this by his Chinese boss. These people are highly adaptable and fast thinkers when they need to be, and of course they'll look for any advantage they can, especially if they think their market will shrink.

Hope that adds more to my earlier post, and of course I wish you extra special luck! Maybe this will add another dimension to the things we should ask and make clear before we look for 'cleaner' pastures.

Cheers and talk to you soon,

Les

[oyanlan]

You've really given me something to think about now. Thanks for the good advice and your good wishes. Hope youre all doing well in Shantou, Take care, Niamh

[Roger]

I would concur with those who are suspicious of CHinese bosses trying to take advantage of the current crisis: It is difficult to switch schools!
There are roadblocks in certain localities, and the temperature of people is taken by staff at bus terminals, for instance at the Shenzhen Hepinglu long-distance bus station.
If you are caught with high temperature, you can't board. They will deliver you to some hospital or a quarantine station.

In my school they touch your forehead (I don't know if they can detect fever this way), but they are under obligation to report any sick person to the local authorities.