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kzjohn
Joined: 30 Apr 2014
Posts: 277
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 Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| rxk22 wrote: |
| kzjohn wrote: |
my pension is forecast to be about 160k -- hope that's enough...!  |
If its around. I don't count on being able to retire off ofsocial security nor Japan's pension scheme. Gotta save and invest on your own |
True, that.
But since this thread is Korea and Japan, I wonder what a retiree there would be looking at? |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| The average salary in Japan is about ¥340,00/mo according to recent news. |
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steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| rxk22 wrote: |
| kzjohn wrote: |
| my pension is forecast to be about 160k -- hope that's enough...! |
If its around. I don't count on being able to retire off ofsocial security nor Japan's pension scheme. Gotta save and invest on your own |
My wife and I just had this conversation. Planning for retirement, don't include the pension. If we receive anything, it will be a nice extra. Sad but practical. |
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weigookin74
Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 265
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| RM1983 wrote: |
| weigookin74 wrote: |
Seriously dudes, get together and demand changes. Can you really have a quality life and pay off your debts on 250,000 yen or even less per month?
First, get rid of this stupid "guarantor" renter system.
Second raise the salaries to 350,000 yen a month.
If I can live where I want and even in a nice place with no BS and have some money to pay the debts and to have some money in pocket, then I'd say "Japan, sign me up." Till, then I'll say "Japan F@%koff!" The politicians need to change their laws surrounding some of the discrimination and to institute a living "minimum wage" for foreign teachers.
Get together and lobby the government, especially if you're leaving anyways. What are they going to do kick you out? |
The guarantor system is very similar in Korea isn't it? I honestly prefer it here where my boss doesn't own the lease and breathe down your neck.
I've always wanted to live in Thailand, so I'll go now and tell them they need to lobby the government to improve the economy to first world levels and to give all foreigners a plot of land on which to grow "herbs" ; ) |
Bolded part. Nope! You can live in your employer's apartment. But some contracts offer a rent subsidy or choice instead. Many public school jobs also give you the choice. But the employer apartments can be old and require no deposit. Newer ones and nicer ones require a large deposit. In Seoul a modern studio requires $10,000 deposit. In the countryside and regional cities, it's $3000. The monthly rent in Seoul for that is $500 and in the country is $300. The employers don't like paying the deposits, well some. So, you end up in old buildings with expensive bills because the old buildings have old heaters and they are uninsulated. Prone to mold and other issues.
In public school, if you are willing to pay your own deposit, they'll give you the money for the rent - up to $400. If you are willing to pay the deposit, you can go to the rental agent and rent a place. Building owners here like getting money so they generally agree to rent to you as they get no money when the apartment is empty. There's no guarantor involved. Money cuts across the racial divide. Then when you move out, you get your deposit back. The deposit also keeps rent prices down because the owner puts it into some kind of interest paying account.
So, I paid $3000 for a one time deposit which I later got back. Then, I paid $300 a month for rent. It was a new building with such things as insulation and energy efficient gas heating systems. So, the utilities were low even in winter. In an old building they're sky high because of the inefficiencies involved in old buildings. |
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weigookin74
Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 265
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| kzjohn wrote: |
| rxk22 wrote: |
| kzjohn wrote: |
| my pension is forecast to be about 160k -- hope that's enough...! |
If its around. I don't count on being able to retire off ofsocial security nor Japan's pension scheme. Gotta save and invest on your own |
True, that.
But since this thread is Korea and Japan, I wonder what a retiree there would be looking at? |
I worked for 10 years in Korea and I'm entitled to about 280,000 won a month from my time there in addition to my Canadian pension which won't be a lot. But I would get the Old Age Pension on top of that and my Korean residency counted as a part of my Canadian residency requirement to get that pension (IE More years in Canada more pension for that one.)
That's based on 10 years, not my entire working life. |
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Lamarr
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| TokyoLiz wrote: |
| The average salary in Japan is about ¥340,00/mo according to recent news. |
That's probably the mean salary, in other words, all of the salaries in Japan added up then divided by the number of workers. The one I quoted was the median salary, the one that's slap bang in the middle of the list of all the salaries earned. |
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weigookin74
Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 265
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Lamarr wrote: |
| weigookin74 wrote: |
Can you really have a quality life and pay off your debts on 250,000 yen or even less per month?
First, get rid of this stupid "guarantor" renter system.
Second raise the salaries to 350,000 yen a month.
Get together and lobby the government, especially if you're leaving anyways. What are they going to do kick you out? |
One of the problems is that the unions in eikaiwa and ALT aren't strong enough to effect much change. The workforce is largely transient and not many people stay in it for the long haul. Those who do get into positions in the union can come in for hassle off their employer as well.
This is why so many people on here recommend getting better-qualified, or going self-employed, opening your own school maybe, if you want to have a chance of having a more stable career with better pay (and even that's not a guarantee). The only other option is to get promoted to a management position in an eikaiwa or ALT company, but then you've got to play along with all the company bullsh!t, dishing it out to the "serfs" and getting crap from above and below.
You can live on 250k a month. If you were strict with your living costs, and lived further out of town in a place with cheaper rent, you could have about 100k in disposable income a month. IIRC the median wage is about 250k. Bog standard office workers, receptionists probably don't earn much more than 150k a month. The Japanese English teachers at Aeon earn about 200-220k a month.
I'm sure those people would look at foreign English teachers earning a "lowly" 250k a month and wonder what they're whinging about. |
Well, I've looked online and the type of modern studio I could rent affordably in Korea looks to be 100K Yen in Tokyo. Taxes are higher and other fees in Japan. I really think you are quite poor. If you spend 500 bucks on a cheap apartment and then taxes and all these other fees, then living costs, then food, other things, commuting, etc. I really can't imagine a high quality of life. Lots of folks who have taught in Japan have said via Youtube that they were struggling. I'd love to try Japan out, but not if I'm going to be poor. That said, Seoul is dropping in lifestyle quality compared to a decade ago. The rest of the country is still open. Korea is slowly going down the decline path that Japan had previously gone for ESL but isn't there yet. Employers trying to cut things out, positions in public schools in universities being cut.
As for getting more qualifications, it's no guarantee for jobs. Wages and perks are lower for most of those too and the few that do pay more have too much competition while governments cut back on those. I think China prob has the best deal starting to go right now in terms of disposable income.
Anyways, if you want to live in a nice place, be able to send some money home, and be able to go out once in a while, while paying bills, I think you really need 350,000 yen a month there. This is due to paying your own rent and also paying your own flight to Japan. |
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Lamarr
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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Estate agents usually like you to be earning 3 times the rent. So for 250k a month wage you'd be able to get a place for 80-85k a month max. Above that and it might be difficult. There are areas close to central Tokyo where you could get a two-bedroom place for that amount, especially on the east side "shitamachi", downtown area, which is a bit cheaper.
If you wanted to earn 350k a month, you'd need to give it a few years and plan how you're going to reach that. Unless you've already advanced your career elsewhere and can get something at the same level in Japan. It would take you years to reach anywhere near that level of salary with a bog standard eikaiwa or ALT job, and several promotions. Unless you did private work on the side, in which case you're not going to have much freetime.
If you want to aim to earn that amount, you need to be getting better-qualified, or else going self-employed and doing it yourself. You'd probably need to get an MA and either get into a uni, a good business teaching job, or a direct hire or private school ALT job to be earning that kind of money. |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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Lamarr
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| And save the womansplaining for your feminist ethics class. Just clarifying the point for anyone who wasn't sure and was interested. Other people read these posts as well you know (oh sorry, I'm mansplaining again. Silly me) |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Other people read these posts as well you know (oh sorry, I'm mansplaining again. Silly me) |
Have a good new year! |
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Lamarr
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| You too. |
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weigookin74
Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 265
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| Lamarr wrote: |
Estate agents usually like you to be earning 3 times the rent. So for 250k a month wage you'd be able to get a place for 80-85k a month max. Above that and it might be difficult. There are areas close to central Tokyo where you could get a two-bedroom place for that amount, especially on the east side "shitamachi", downtown area, which is a bit cheaper.
If you wanted to earn 350k a month, you'd need to give it a few years and plan how you're going to reach that. Unless you've already advanced your career elsewhere and can get something at the same level in Japan. It would take you years to reach anywhere near that level of salary with a bog standard eikaiwa or ALT job, and several promotions. Unless you did private work on the side, in which case you're not going to have much freetime.
If you want to aim to earn that amount, you need to be getting better-qualified, or else going self-employed and doing it yourself. You'd probably need to get an MA and either get into a uni, a good business teaching job, or a direct hire or private school ALT job to be earning that kind of money. |
A MA won't save you as it's hyper competitive and many employers in Japan won't recognize you. As for the rest, I could just save myself the grief and choose to vote with my feet and go somewhere else where I wil make more money or have more savings potential. I still think you're going to be poor on 250,000 yen in Japan. You certaintly couldn't afford to have a family or a large apartment on that wage (assuming you married a local and stayed there).
Starting your own school is an idea. I can only imagine the start up costs in Japan and if you're kind of poor how hard it would be to save up the money.
I like Japan. I've visted a couple of times. I'd even like to try teaching there for a year. But not if I'm going tobe struggling to get by or have one good night out on the town make me feel stressed out for fear of running out of money. |
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kzjohn
Joined: 30 Apr 2014
Posts: 277
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:28 am Post subject: |
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I'll try not to get all 'old guy' on you all...
On my first trip to Korea I got there in about September of '71 (a vietnam-era draftee who won the lottery by instead being sent to Korea). Stayed for 19 months--started over near Incheon, but then spent most of it in Seoul/Yongsan. I was in an aviation company (air controllers), and so from the heliport where I worked on the south tip of Yongsan, I could catch rides and back to a lot of places. Up to Uijeongbu (CRC & Stanley), and further to TDC. I even rode along a couple times as they flew the checkpoints along the DMZ. I had a couple different places in Itaewon, and I usually paid my rent in cases of beer out of the PX. Besides hopping choppers, I made it via busses/trains to Samcheok and back. Kind of off the track for a GI. The universities were closed then, soldiers at the gates, Park had declared martial law.
I went back to Korea in the spring of '74 in peace corps (health/TB control), and after some training they put me in Inje, just next to Seolaksan. Two years there, more language made more travel nice.
Third time I taught at 'Way-day', northeast Seoul, Imun-dong (at an institute--KOTRA people--not regular students). Just a year. This was about '85. But very good money. First demo-elected presidents about then, and the end of Chun Do-wan.
My institute there downsized me, and I left for Japan and have been here ever since. I slipped in here at a good time, and was qualified (MA and BA in linguistics and communications) and was easily able to score a tenured position. Tho these days people say that a PhD is the new MA, there are uni jobs around for MA holders.
***
So I'm sure Korea has changed...! 
Still, tho some peace corps people I knew married, and/or stayed there for a while (some even went to med school there and then took the ECFMG and went back to the states to practice), I frankly don't know of anyone who has retired there. Same for some teachers during my third stay there--married, but looking at the door.
OTOH, we've raised two kids here in Japan, who went thru local schools and then on to nat'l universities. One has graduated (engineering) & is working and is now married to a Japanese guy, over near Tokyo. The other, got into 東大 (also science) on her first try and is now sitting across the table from me planning for grad school in the states (which I hope works out). Can biracial kids follow a similar trajectory in Korea?
From my experience from deeper in the past, I'd probably say no. But things may have changed.
Many of the foreigners I know here in Japan are in it for the long term (permanent). More than several own property and have no plans to leave. One fellow even relinquished and became Japanese--and frankly, who would ever do that in Korea!!
I'm on the sea of Japan side, so post-retirement I'd like to winter in SE asia. But the food, air, water, and healthcare here is otherwise superb and very reasonable. Luckily, my wife has always worked and will be getting her own, separate pension, probably something close to mine.
Of course you can ask, "Will it last?" Well, ask that anywhere. I wouldn't want to retire in the states, nor Korea, nor China...! For those that are lucky enough to be Canadian, it looks like you have it better than most anyone.
blah, blah, blah...! |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| A MA won't save you as it's hyper competitive and many employers in Japan won't recognize you. |
How did you get that impression?
It's true that most jobs that get you in the door here only want warm bodies with minimal qualifications. And the pay is minimal.
However, institutions I have worked for, ones that hire in country, have had a heck of a time finding and retaining TESOL MA or TESOL diploma teachers, either Japanese or foreign, who are ready to work. |
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