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LarssonCrew
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308
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 Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Let's be honest, asian is at least keeping some sort of post count up and earning a fair whack.
With his 900 posts he's earnt 450 yuan, that's alot of money for a Chinese guy.
At least whenever we post ANYTHING critical he'll be there to remind us that, although it was bad in China, something else was horrible in another country.
Keep up the good work into the next year. |
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adventious
Joined: 23 Nov 2015
Posts: 237
Location: In the wide
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| LarssonCrew wrote: |
| Let's be honest, |
Is a tired phrase that begins nearly a majority of LarssonCrew's posts. |
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LarssonCrew
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| Those two month accounts doe! |
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Markness
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 738
Location: Chengdu
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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I'm resurrecting this thread like a necromancer!
I know lots of people like recruiters.. they enjoy telling people they have an agent, they enjoy their "job safety", they enjoy someone "helping them with their visa", when in reality the recruiter is absolutely unnecessary to have once you are in the country. I will list the following reasons:
#1 - They (Chinese recruiters, foreign ones don't pull of this stunt and make less money as a result), will always take off a huge chunk of your salary every month. My first company I ever worked for in China paid me 4800 a month. I thought to myself.. "hey, that ain't bad, I can pick up a few hours and save!". Well, what actually happened was they put me in the sticks where poor people lived and there was no extra money opportunities. And the worst part was <drum roll>.... the school paid my recruiter 14,000 a month, and I only saw 4800 of it. Every person I know who uses a recruiter makes half of what I make at one of my jobs. It is sickening.
#2 - They do shit that at the school that the admin can already do. Processing a visa? No need for a recruiter. Job security? No need for a recruiter. Dealing with your Chinese boss? No need for a recruiter. You get the admin to take care of that.
#3 - There are loads of job websites. I apply for shits and giggles at a few places and will ALWAYS get someone who contacts me back. There are so many schools/businesses/small companies who are hurting for foreign teachers. No need to pay someone to find a job for you. Shop around yourself and you'll get a sweet gig.
Last thing I want to say is that using a recruiter to come to China is cool, but staying with them for more than a term is just plain silly. They don't care about your well-being, they just need you for that extra money. If they are taking care of you after they have found a job for you then you can guarantee that they're taking a huge chunk off of your paycheck every month. |
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Markness wrote: |
I'm resurrecting this thread like a necromancer!
I know lots of people like recruiters.. they enjoy telling people they have an agent, they enjoy their "job safety", they enjoy someone "helping them with their visa", when in reality the recruiter is absolutely unnecessary to have once you are in the country. I will list the following reasons:
#1 - They (Chinese recruiters, foreign ones don't pull of this stunt and make less money as a result), will always take off a huge chunk of your salary every month. My first company I ever worked for in China paid me 4800 a month. I thought to myself.. "hey, that ain't bad, I can pick up a few hours and save!". Well, what actually happened was they put me in the sticks where poor people lived and there was no extra money opportunities. And the worst part was <drum roll>.... the school paid my recruiter 14,000 a month, and I only saw 4800 of it. Every person I know who uses a recruiter makes half of what I make at one of my jobs. It is sickening.
#2 - They do shit that at the school that the admin can already do. Processing a visa? No need for a recruiter. Job security? No need for a recruiter. Dealing with your Chinese boss? No need for a recruiter. You get the admin to take care of that.
#3 - There are loads of job websites. I apply for shits and giggles at a few places and will ALWAYS get someone who contacts me back. There are so many schools/businesses/small companies who are hurting for foreign teachers. No need to pay someone to find a job for you. Shop around yourself and you'll get a sweet gig.
Last thing I want to say is that using a recruiter to come to China is cool, but staying with them for more than a term is just plain silly. They don't care about your well-being, they just need you for that extra money. If they are taking care of you after they have found a job for you then you can guarantee that they're taking a huge chunk off of your paycheck every month. |
A necromancer is a wizard. You mean necrophiliac. The thread was dead.
1. No school will enter into a contract with a recruiter for a monthly payment on a recruit, especially for the amount that you have quoted. Who told you that your recruiter was collecting 14,000 per month? 4,800rmb (or a salary in that range) is standard BA wage at a public university. What are your qualifications that can command 18,800 rmb per month? What was the school? This is delusional.
Actually, there are quite a few western recruiters who are worse than most Chinese recruiters and school owners. In fact. some of the recruiters are school owners who will bring you over on an F or an L visa and let you twist in the wind after you arrive.
2. No recruiters who have worked with me have gotten involved in any of the paperwork except putting a contract in my hands. No one who has ever used recruiters depends upon any of them for job security. True, once you're settled in the job, they're gone. You can call most of them in the first few weeks if things turn sour, and you can usually count on them to straighten problems out, such as breach of contract. Who is the "admin" who will attend problems with your Chinese boss? Your Chinese boss IS the administration.
3. Who do you think puts up the "jobsites" for multiple listings? Schools? Philanthropists? Who do you think calls you back?
If you got stuck out in the sticks, it's your fault. You didn't do your homework.
And the content of your thread attests to the fact that you still haven't done any homework.
Spend a few more years in China and come back and answer my questions. |
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SH_Panda
Joined: 31 May 2011
Posts: 455
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| I have dealt with a few recruiters/agents recently during my job search. While 80% of them are rubbish, there are some that are useful. One of them actually found me a really sweet job. She wasn't involved in any of the stuff like paperwork, and she wouldn't have been paid any of the salary I was offered. Most of them work on a one-time finders fee then leave it to the school/teacher to hammer out details. |
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Markness
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 738
Location: Chengdu
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| OhBudPowellWhereArtThou wrote: |
| Markness wrote: |
I'm resurrecting this thread like a necromancer!
I know lots of people like recruiters.. they enjoy telling people they have an agent, they enjoy their "job safety", they enjoy someone "helping them with their visa", when in reality the recruiter is absolutely unnecessary to have once you are in the country. I will list the following reasons:
#1 - They (Chinese recruiters, foreign ones don't pull of this stunt and make less money as a result), will always take off a huge chunk of your salary every month. My first company I ever worked for in China paid me 4800 a month. I thought to myself.. "hey, that ain't bad, I can pick up a few hours and save!". Well, what actually happened was they put me in the sticks where poor people lived and there was no extra money opportunities. And the worst part was <drum roll>.... the school paid my recruiter 14,000 a month, and I only saw 4800 of it. Every person I know who uses a recruiter makes half of what I make at one of my jobs. It is sickening.
#2 - They do shit that at the school that the admin can already do. Processing a visa? No need for a recruiter. Job security? No need for a recruiter. Dealing with your Chinese boss? No need for a recruiter. You get the admin to take care of that.
#3 - There are loads of job websites. I apply for shits and giggles at a few places and will ALWAYS get someone who contacts me back. There are so many schools/businesses/small companies who are hurting for foreign teachers. No need to pay someone to find a job for you. Shop around yourself and you'll get a sweet gig.
Last thing I want to say is that using a recruiter to come to China is cool, but staying with them for more than a term is just plain silly. They don't care about your well-being, they just need you for that extra money. If they are taking care of you after they have found a job for you then you can guarantee that they're taking a huge chunk off of your paycheck every month. |
A necromancer is a wizard. You mean necrophiliac. The thread was dead.
1. No school will enter into a contract with a recruiter for a monthly payment on a recruit, especially for the amount that you have quoted. Who told you that your recruiter was collecting 14,000 per month? 4,800rmb (or a salary in that range) is standard BA wage at a public university. What are your qualifications that can command 18,800 rmb per month? What was the school? This is delusional.
Actually, there are quite a few western recruiters who are worse than most Chinese recruiters and school owners. In fact. some of the recruiters are school owners who will bring you over on an F or an L visa and let you twist in the wind after you arrive.
2. No recruiters who have worked with me have gotten involved in any of the paperwork except putting a contract in my hands. No one who has ever used recruiters depends upon any of them for job security. True, once you're settled in the job, they're gone. You can call most of them in the first few weeks if things turn sour, and you can usually count on them to straighten problems out, such as breach of contract. Who is the "admin" who will attend problems with your Chinese boss? Your Chinese boss IS the administration.
3. Who do you think puts up the "jobsites" for multiple listings? Schools? Philanthropists? Who do you think calls you back?
If you got stuck out in the sticks, it's your fault. You didn't do your homework.
And the content of your thread attests to the fact that you still haven't done any homework.
Spend a few more years in China and come back and answer my questions. |
#1 Nope I didn't say I was supposed to get paid 18,800. My chinese co-worker asked on my behalf how much my salary was supposed to be because I wanted to pretend that I wasn't clear on it, they quoted 14,000, and I only saw 4,800. Therefore, the company was pocketing 9,200 every month, not 14,000. The point I was trying to make was that recruiters will steal your money every month, if you think I am making this up then you're delusional. How else will they make a living?
#2 Nope again. An admin can do everything you mentioned in my second point, and many people I know use recruiters for the points I've mentioned in my second point. I will not address them because it is quite clear.
#3 Huh? What are you going on about, Bud? Job sites are websites that offer jobs. There are a ton of them and employers use them to put their available jobs on there. Therefore the recruiter is also useless in this retrospect because they hand-pick a job for you, whereas if you go job hunting using the job website method as mentioned previously you would be able to find your own job and have flexibility in doing so, whereas the recruiter offers you the schools that no one wants to go to.
And as for me not doing my own homework, I researched the company and they had a shitload of fake positive reviews. I got to China fine, and then they offered me a crappy job, they put me in a place that they didn't say they were going to put me. That to me is dishonesty, and I cannot support it at all.
I have never had positive experiences with recruiters, with the exception of one westerner who was doing it part-time. She told me how it all works on her end and how she gets paid. One-time commission and she would always show how much the school pays, whereas the other Chinese recruiter lied. This doesn't just happen to me, it happens/has happened to a lot of my friends too.
P.S. A necromancer is one that raises the dead, a necrophiliac is one that makes love to them  |
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Shanghai Noon
Joined: 18 Aug 2013
Posts: 589
Location: Shanghai, China
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree with Bud on this one. The only way an agent can pocket any of your salary is if the agent has a FEC license. What kind of school with a FEC license would pay an agent that kind of money when they don't need to? |
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The bear
Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Posts: 483
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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Agents/recruiters get a one off payment. From my understanding it usually comes from the school's budget. NOT the FT salary fund. Yes, both come from the 'school's pot of money' but to say that any money saved from not using a recruiter would go into the FT's salary is incorrect.
I used a recruiter to find my first job in China, and will probably go with a recruiter for my next one due to the specific nature of the job I'm after. In my first job I wasn't paid any less than any other FT at the uni, same accommodation, flights, classes etc. etc. If I had contacted the uni directly I would have been offered the same deal.
Yes, I generally dislike recruiters. They're pushy, can be rude, and naive at times, but they also have keys to doors you can't open. So, as long as you stick to your guns, are polite but firm, and understand the situation, recruiters aren't all bad.
Important note - this does not include 'recruiters' who lie and say 'come on a tourist visa'. They are people traffickers. Never actually dealt with any of those personally though. |
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Markness wrote: |
And as for me not doing my own homework, I researched the company and they had a shitload of fake positive reviews. I got to China fine, and then they offered me a crappy job, they put me in a place that they didn't say they were going to put me. That to me is dishonesty, and I cannot support it at all.
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Wait. You arrived in China AND THEN you were offered a job?
You found fake positive reviews of schools? Did you contact the Chinese Foreign Teachers' Union first? That's their specialty.
"...My chinese co-worker asked on my behalf how much my salary was supposed to be because I wanted to pretend that I wasn't clear on it, they quoted 14,000, and I only saw 4,800. Therefore, the company was pocketing 9,200 every month, not 14,000..."
It still doesn't make any sense.
"...An admin can do everything you mentioned in my second point..."
Who is this "admin"?
"...Job sites are websites that offer jobs. There are a ton of them and employers use them to put their available jobs on there..."
You think that every person who responds to your inquiry on a website offering jobs in China is a school administrator? How do you think people encounter recruiters?
Good luck.[/i] |
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Markness
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 738
Location: Chengdu
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Shanghai Noon wrote: |
| I agree with Bud on this one. The only way an agent can pocket any of your salary is if the agent has a FEC license. What kind of school with a FEC license would pay an agent that kind of money when they don't need to? |
Come on man, use common sense. The school pays the recruiter, the recruiter then pays you. During the transaction from the recruiter to your bank money goes into their pockets and you see the salary that they offer. No need for a licence. You're assuming recruiters are honest...  |
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Markness
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 738
Location: Chengdu
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| The bear wrote: |
Agents/recruiters get a one off payment. From my understanding it usually comes from the school's budget. NOT the FT salary fund. Yes, both come from the 'school's pot of money' but to say that any money saved from not using a recruiter would go into the FT's salary is incorrect.
I used a recruiter to find my first job in China, and will probably go with a recruiter for my next one due to the specific nature of the job I'm after. In my first job I wasn't paid any less than any other FT at the uni, same accommodation, flights, classes etc. etc. If I had contacted the uni directly I would have been offered the same deal.
Yes, I generally dislike recruiters. They're pushy, can be rude, and naive at times, but they also have keys to doors you can't open. So, as long as you stick to your guns, are polite but firm, and understand the situation, recruiters aren't all bad.
Important note - this does not include 'recruiters' who lie and say 'come on a tourist visa'. They are people traffickers. Never actually dealt with any of those personally though. |
No one said the first part. You're assuming like the others that the Chinese recruiters are being 100 percent honest, which is naive and why their operation works. I get paid twice as much as my friends do teaching in similar positions. They use recruiters and I do not. The recruiter is pocketing their money and just say that the salary the school is offering is low. I see it all the time. Why do people who use recruiters always have a super low salary? There isn't a coincidence there.
Highschools/middleschools pay in the range of 8-20k in chengdu, two of my friends make 7000 working and the other makes 4800 (they all use recruiters). Myself and another friend who do not use recruiters make 2-3 times as much as them. It is blatantly obvious that someone is pocketing money, and since the recruiter is the one who pays them then you can do the math. |
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Markness
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 738
Location: Chengdu
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| OhBudPowellWhereArtThou wrote: |
| Markness wrote: |
And as for me not doing my own homework, I researched the company and they had a shitload of fake positive reviews. I got to China fine, and then they offered me a crappy job, they put me in a place that they didn't say they were going to put me. That to me is dishonesty, and I cannot support it at all.
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Wait. You arrived in China AND THEN you were offered a job?
You found fake positive reviews of schools? Did you contact the Chinese Foreign Teachers' Union first? That's their specialty.
"...My chinese co-worker asked on my behalf how much my salary was supposed to be because I wanted to pretend that I wasn't clear on it, they quoted 14,000, and I only saw 4,800. Therefore, the company was pocketing 9,200 every month, not 14,000..."
It still doesn't make any sense.
"...An admin can do everything you mentioned in my second point..."
Who is this "admin"?
"...Job sites are websites that offer jobs. There are a ton of them and employers use them to put their available jobs on there..."
You think that every person who responds to your inquiry on a website offering jobs in China is a school administrator? How do you think people encounter recruiters?
Good luck.[/i] |
#1 They offered a position in one city, printed out the contract and I signed it and they offered me a different city when I arrived in China..
# 2 Schools hire people who can speak English and they usually are in admin positions/maybe teach. My school has one and many others do too. No recruiter there. She was just an ordinary office worker who could speak English.
# 3 I look at the salary. If it is low then I will not even contact. People who get the recruiters probably are looking for the low pay/low hour jobs. I never had to deal with a recruiter when I used a job website. It is super obvious if they are one as they typically offer positions in like 20 different cities or offer a super low salary and are sketchy about details of the position available. |
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The bear
Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Posts: 483
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Markness wrote: |
No one said the first part. You're assuming like the others that the Chinese recruiters are being 100 percent honest, which is naive and why their operation works. I get paid twice as much as my friends do teaching in similar positions. They use recruiters and I do not. The recruiter is pocketing their money and just say that the salary the school is offering is low. I see it all the time. Why do people who use recruiters always have a super low salary? There isn't a coincidence there.
Highschools/middleschools pay in the range of 8-20k in chengdu, two of my friends make 7000 working and the other makes 4800 (they all use recruiters). Myself and another friend who do not use recruiters make 2-3 times as much as them. It is blatantly obvious that someone is pocketing money, and since the recruiter is the one who pays them then you can do the math. |
I'm saying the first part. I get my information from universities and a friends, one of which IS a recruiter.
Great, you get paid twice as much. YOU. Not the majority of people who use recruiters. I've not known anyone get paid by a recruiter, that's all they do, recruit. The university/school then pays them.
This all boils down to homework. Do your homework and you'll be fine. |
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Shanghai Noon
Joined: 18 Aug 2013
Posts: 589
Location: Shanghai, China
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Markness wrote: |
| Shanghai Noon wrote: |
| I agree with Bud on this one. The only way an agent can pocket any of your salary is if the agent has a FEC license. What kind of school with a FEC license would pay an agent that kind of money when they don't need to? |
Come on man, use common sense. The school pays the recruiter, the recruiter then pays you. During the transaction from the recruiter to your bank money goes into their pockets and you see the salary that they offer. No need for a licence. You're assuming recruiters are honest... |
Agent A takes a one off payment. Agent B takes a cut of the salary and charges ¥18,000 per month. Why on Earth would any school go with agent B when they can go with agent A? And yes, you do need an FEC license to sign a legal contract with a teacher. |
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