Job Discussion Forums

[Vincents]

Hey everyone, I came across this site recently when looking up some info about teaching English abroad. I've read some posts already but figured my situation is a bit different since I am older and starting from scratch rather than a recent a college grad looking to go abroad, so I was hoping I could get some more personalized suggestions/advice/info from some of you guys who have been in this field for a while now and know what you're talking about.

First a little bit about myself, I am a 31 year old American who has worked retail his entire life. I never went to college after high school, instead I started working to help my family with money. I've never had a passion for anything and I suppose I am not a very ambitious person either. As long as nothing is drastically wrong, then I am content and can't get out of my own way to make things better for myself. I suppose maybe that even makes me a bit lazy haha. Anyway, those are all things I want to and am ready to change now after the last couple years and the feeling/thoughts on my life in general.

I've decided I want to make a drastic change in my life by finally going to college at 31 years old, so that I have the means and ability to move my life and create a new future for myself on the other side of the world, in a country where I don't know anyone and don't even speak the language. Sounds pretty crazy right? Lol, at least that's what all my friends and family here in the states think. However I am committed to the idea and it wasn't one that I made lightly. There are quite a few reasons why I've decided to completely change my life and career around, but for the sake of not making this first message too long I'll simply say I believe I will have a not only better life, but a happier one as well, if I choose to pursue a career in teaching English abroad compared to staying in the states and working retail. I also realize I won't be getting rich and making tons of money by teaching English abroad, and I am okay with that. As long as I make enough money to live on my own, pay all my bills, clothes, food etc. and have a bit extra to put away to save, then I will be happy.

I suppose I am in both a good and bad position. By that I mean it sucks that I am only JUST now considering going to college and working on a BA degree at 31 years old. I probably won't finish until I am like 36 considering I am sure I'll need a year of pre-req classes as well. However I guess the bright to it is since I am just starting now I can choose a degree that will directly help me or prepare me for teaching English abroad, as opposed to many people who seem have degrees in unrelated fields. Yea? Anyway that leads me to one of my first questions ....

1) Considering I will be starting this career from scratch and will be going to college for the first time ever, which BA degree do you guys feel would be most beneficial for me? Which do you think would prepare me the most for becoming an English language teacher? I plan to go to University of Delaware and figured my best bet would be 1 of these 2 programs ...

English Education - ( http://www.udel.edu/admissions/majorfinder/?facet_major_code=English%20Education )

or

Elementary Teacher Education - ( http://www.udel.edu/admissions/majorfinder/?facet_major_code=Elementary%20Teacher%20Education )

The ETE degree seems like I would learn more about things like class room management, dealing with kids, and just a general knowledge of teaching with more hands on experience starting in freshman year as opposed to Jr year. Also apparently I can choose a concentration on TESL with the Elementary Teacher Education program. Considering most of the English language schools I visited while in Japan, it seemed like 75% of the students were kids and I have no experience with kids, let alone how to teach them. So I was leaning towards this degree originally because I figured I'd get the most general knowledge of "how" to be a Teacher, as opposed to just learning specific English teaching techniques. Does that make any sense? lol

The English Education degree on the other hand seems like it is more based on literature, grammar specific English teaching skills which are directed more for older students. It also has the possibility of earning a Masters Degree in TESL in 1 year with the 4+1 BA+MA program that you can apply for in your Jr of college, however it is extremely difficult to be accepted into that from what I hear, so it is unlikely I would be able to do that. I suppose if I were to teach at University or International school, or even a high school... then this degree would be more valuable?

Honestly, I am not sure which is better because everything I've read said you don't actually "need" a specific degree to teach English, you just need ANY BA degree and that most people actually have degrees in completely unrelated fields. So I've read having an Education degree may set you apart from others and give you better job positions or maybe even higher pay. However, I haven't read anywhere about which specific Education degree is the better one?

In my situation, where I have absolutely no experience teaching anything, no experience with kids/children, have never been to college before and will most likely struggle with more difficult courses etc. Considering those things, which degree do you guys think would be the most beneficial one for me over all?

All opinion, advice and suggestions are appreciated! Also I am more then willing to give any additional information about myself so feel free to ask if I haven't provided enough info... I just didn't want to make this first post too long, which by looks of it I already failed anyway lol.

Looking forward to reading some responses!

-Vincent

[nomad soul]

[suphanburi]

Allow me to provide a nickel's worth of free advice/information.

You: American, 35ish when you graduate, clean police check and no history of mental or chronic illness (all of these are visa issues).

Your best bet for employment is in Asia. 35 is NOT old for transitioning into EFL or working abroad as a teacher. There are LOTS of folks who transitioned at much older ages. I didn't come to Asia until I was 45 and I wasn't then and am not now the oldest by far.

The best paying jobs in Asia are teaching elementary kids in internationally accredited schools. Math and science, taught in English are the best paying jobs for licensed teachers (any age) followed closely by English speaking, primary school English (subject not EFL) or home-room teachers. Gender is NOT an issue for those 3 subjects but can be an issue for home room teachers.

The worst paying jobs are entry level EFL with an unrelated BA and no experience.

Adding a TESOL/TESL endorsement to your B.Secondary education (major in Math or a Science) degree or a B.Ed in primary education is pretty much like gold.

The market in Asia is actually HUGE.

Korea still absorbs 7000 new teachers every year.

With a (mainstream K-9) student population of 230 million, China will easily absorb close to 1 million English speaking teachers before they are done.
They currently recruit about 50k new English speaking teachers every year and would easily take double that number if they could recruit them.
There are about 350 million English learners in China today; there are more English learners in China today than there are English speakers in America.

The rest of east Asia takes in another 50k English speaking teachers every year.

Entry level EFL teachers in Asia make between $7,200-25,000 per year.
Licensed, international school teachers start at about $25k and go up to 60k+benefits for experienced and specialized teachers.

.

[schwa]

Nomad's path advice looks solid.

Seconding suphanburi, I just wanted to add from my experience that its never too late to start, & good on ya. I started university at 34 & graduated with an MA at 39. I moved abroad to teach at 46 in 1999 & I'm still happily at it.

Age is just a number.

[santi84]

Just a thought Vincent, but instead of thinking you are "old" (I'm 31 as well), look at it as the world being your oyster. It's also a good idea to volunteer early on, and make sure that teaching is the right path for you. Most education degrees start with the basic broad coursework (literature, psychology), so that gives you an option to be flexible if you decide to change plans later.

I actually changed my criminology degree to a TESL degree in the third year, it's nice to have the option if you need it. Also, make sure to choose a language as an elective. Not only will it be useful if you live abroad where it is the primary location, but it is also nice to see experienced language teachers in action. I use a lot of techniques learned while I was a language student.

[Xie Lin]

[Vincents]

Hey guys, really appreciate the responses. Also I should of mentioned I plan to eventually end up Japan, so that is the goal. However I would consider traveling and teaching in different countries before finally settling in Japan if it made sense to do that. For example, I've read that teaching English in Korea is the best bet for a lot of fresh out of college teachers with no experience because you can save a quite a bit of money (which would help with those student loan bills) and also because apparently they are very accepting of teachers without any teaching experience, which makes it a great place to start out? I'm not sure how much of that is true or just rumor, but that is something I was considering might be good for me. Finish degree, go to Korea for a year or 2, get some experience, earn a decent chunk of money then head off to Japan. So depending on the circumstances I'd be willing to try a year or so in another country, but the goal is create a life for myself in Japan.

Also I am very relived to read comments like some of these about how maybe my age isn't too much of a problem like I thought it would be. I've read a lot about how schools abroad want the young bright eyed 22-24 year old college graduates and often ignore older teachers, but of course again who knows if that is true or rumor. However reading some of these comments about when you guys started or transitioned makes me feel a bit better about my odds and takes away a little bit of the enormous worry I originally had haha.

@Santi, Yeah you're right, maybe I should change my view/perspective of things to be in a more positive light lol. I suppose that's always been difficult for me, I usually see the bad things rather than the good, but it's something I'd like to change. Can I ask, why did you change to TESL from criminology, what was it that changed your mind? Also I will definitely try take some Japanese language courses if they are available to me at UD, which I believe they are.

@schwa What country did you start teaching in at 46? Have you stayed in the same country teaching English since then?

@suphanbury Asia is exactly where I would like to go, Japan more specifically, but I would be willing to try a difference country or 2 when I first finish college depending on the circumstances. So just to be clear, when you mention some of the best jobs in Asia are teaching in international schools, that also includes Japan? So from what you mentioned one of my better options (for money) would be teaching English speaking Japanese children Math, Science or English (subject, not language) in an international school? How difficult do you think it would be to find a job like that? And assuming that's what I chose, would you suggest the Elementary Teacher Education degree over the English Education one?

@nomad The male mid 30s vs female in her 20s thing was definitely something I was concerned about originally, though I don't know how much of a difference it would make actually make for me, I suppose it just depends if I am lucky, or unlucky. You mentioned teaching at an American-curriculum school, which I am assuming is all taught in English? So were you referring to teaching the subject of English, as opposed to English language? Also, I am not very interested in staying in Delaware longer then I have to. So even if it might be better to finish my degree then teach in Delaware for a few years, I'd rather move abroad within a year after I graduate and start earning experience teaching that way instead. Simply because I will likely be 36+ by the time I finish so I'd prefer to not have to stay in Delaware any longer then needed, with the exception of if I stayed it would make an enormous impact on my career possibilities. Aside from that, my preference would be to go abroad as quickly as possible.

Also something some of you have mentioned was "ESOL endorsement", by that are you referring to something like a CELTA certification?

[Xie Lin]

[spanglish]

Hey there,

You express yourself well and have done some really good research so far; I think you're going to be very successful. Very good advice above for you - you really need to figure out which age group is the best for you - high school vs. elementary vs university or adults. Then you need to figure out if teaching a subject is best (ie science, math, social studies - definitely go for science or math if you have an aptitude there - many, many, many more jobs to be had) or if you truly want to teach English as a Foreign Language - that distinction is important.

Next thing and just as important - tailor your studies specifically to what you want to do next. If you decide you want to teach elementary or high school, then study education and get certified as a public school teacher in Delaware. Get a year or three years of experience in America, and then you'll have lots of worldwide options to teach in real US accredited schools.

If you decide you want to teach English as a foreign language, you can either get certified to do so as a K-12 teacher, or you can double down in this area and study linguistics or education, followed by an MA TESOL with a practical teaching component (it's very important that your training involve assessed teaching of real students). The latter choice - becoming a TEFL teacher without K-12 licensure - is much riskier as you'll have far fewer well-paid teaching opportunities; in this case you might end up teaching students at an expensive/luxurious university in another country like Universidad de los Andes in Colombia or American University in Cairo or for an international organization like AMIDEAST or the British Council - the latter choices likely being less desirable. Going this route is potentially easier and more rewarding because teaching kids or high school teens is definitely not for everybody and potentially very stressful and usually requires 45+++ hour weeks. But K-12 teaching also typically pays better with better benefits (I'm talking about accredited IB and international schools abroad to which well-to-do diplomats and business executive expats send their children to, not working at a public or private K-12 school in the US).

I applaud you on making this career choice and your good work so far in retail. One last thing - I wouldn't recommend you go to South Korea, unless that country is specifically interesting to you. Korea is taken as an option by many people because it pays exceptionally well for those with an unrelated undergraduate degree and poor or nonexistent teaching qualifications. Because you are getting well-qualified before going abroad, you'll have options in nearly every world region.

To answer one of your questions, an ESL endorsement refers to becoming qualified to teach English as a Second Language in a public school in your home-state.

[nomad soul]

Some important questions to ask yourself:

1. Who do I want to teach? Children or adult learners?

2. What do I want to teach? English to speakers of other languages; English/language arts; or other subjects like math, science, art, history, etc?

3. What type of teaching situation overseas do I want to teach in (if children)? Public/government-run school; generic, private international school; American-curriculum international school; or US-accredited private school?

4. What level do I want to teach (if children)? Elementary, secondary, or general/k-12?

5. What type of teaching situation overseas do I want to teach in (if adult learners)? Language school or university level?

6. What countries/regions do I want to teach in?

[suphanburi]

OP:

Pick a country: https://www.tes.com/jobs/browse/asia
You'll notice that China outstrips Japan 83-4 for current job openings (on this website).

If you look at other (Not EFL) job boards or headhunters like:
http://www.searchassociates.com/Candidates/FAQs.aspx
http://www.internationalschoolsreview.com
http://www.ibo.org (go to individual schools in their list and look at their websites and not apply directly to IBO)

There are lots of others out there as well.

For licensed school teachers there are also opportunities like the NET program in Hong Kong (Pays up to $5000/month including cash value of benefits - depending on qualifications), public schools in Taiwan ($2700 + benefits), etc.

[getbehindthemule]

I just want to say fair play to the OP and wish you the best of luck!!
I found myself in a situation a little similar. Whereas I had worked in industry (food & pharma), I became very unhappy in the grind of my career and in life in my home country.
So, in my mid-30s, I made the decision to change to a teaching career as a short term move (but now I am considering making it my future).
I did have an honors degree (BSc.), experience and qualifications in teaching adults. This made it easier for me to jump ship as it were.
Anyway, I am currently in China teaching elementary school Science and absolutely love it. The job is quite well paid but the other benefits - all hols (almost 4 months) fully paid, rent allowance, flight allowance, full medical cover, etc. - make it very comfortable and I am not too much worse off financially than in my previous 'well paid, high stress management position'.
I suppose it is relative to the individual but teaching kids is very rewarding and fun as long as you have the patience and energy for it. I wouldn't even consider teaching middle/high school student over here tbh (young learners or adults only).
To address your concerns about age, I believe a lot of good schools like to hire more mature subject teachers and there does not seem to be a gender bias.
I think you have got some good advice in previous posts, so I just wanted to give you some encouragement and honest feedback from my experience in making the change.
Again, Good luck and feel free to message me if you have any queries about working in China (Well Shanghai, where I am based anyway)