Job Discussion Forums

[Charvo]

This would apply to folks who have bachelor degrees and some experience.

The question would be if an expat would be able to get one of those residence cards without needing a work permit.

The Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung is the guy who put this decree out. He's going to America on February 15 and 16th for an ASEAN summit, so this might be a little goodwill gesture.

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/society/151213/expats-with-degrees-forego-work-permits.html

[ExpatLuke]

http://dtinews.vn/en/news/017004/43846/expats-with-degrees-forego-work-permits-.html

Sounds like it wont change much, unless you have a TESOL or Education degree. Most teachers in Vietnam don't have that, but for those that do, this is very welcome.

[skarper]

I agree - not much will change based on this decree. Too many have too much to gain by keeping the WP charade in place.

Just skimmed the articles but if there is a language requirement to speak even basic Vietnamese few EFL teachers could meet it. So a goodwill/PR gesture that will do little to help the chaotic situation on the ground.

[TRH]

I am assuming the government read this before publication. Notice the following (emphasis mine):

1) " ..a foreigner who has proved to work as an expert, manager, executive director or technician for foreign enterprises, is also eligible to work in Viet Nam without a work permit."

2) "foreign employees who transfer to Viet Nam from the same enterprise abroad"

My reading is that this not yet implemented ruling is to make life easier for the HR departments of multi-national corporations operating in Vietnam. Unless you are teaching at Coca-cola or Proctor & Gamble your circumstances will probably remain the same. It seems to me that VN is not a lot different than most countries in encouraging skilled labor and management while discouraging low wage workers. Look up H1-B visas in the US for a good comparison.

The language requirement looks like a way to keep out Chinese and ASEAN country unskilled labor. The problem for the government is how to write regulations to make things easier on one end and more difficult on the other. Teachers just seem to be stuck in a no-man's land in the middle.

One big positive for those who are steadily employed in one place is the "pilot programme of re-granting working permits through online means." Wasn't there talk a while ago that work permits would not be renewable at all? This would seem to belie that rumor.

[Prof.Gringo]

HA NOI (VNS) — Foreigners with bachelor's degrees and at least three years of experience working in their respective fields are no longer required to obtain work permits in Viet Nam, according to a decree approved by Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung.
The decree contains implementation guidelines for some items related to the management of foreign employees under the Law on Employment.

Under the new decree which was released on Wednesday, a foreigner who has proved to work as an expert, manager, executive director or technician for foreign enterprises, is also eligible to work in Viet Nam without a work permit.

Additionally, foreign employees who transfer to Viet Nam from the same enterprise abroad in the service sectors of business, information, construction, distribution, education, environment, finance, health, tourism, culture and entertainment, and transportation services are permitted to work without a working licence.

In the context of AEC establishment, which allows a free flow of labourers within Asia, Viet Nam is expected to be an attractive destination for investment projects and highly qualified foreign employees, said Ha Thi Minh Duc, Deputy Director General of the Ministry of Labour, Invalids and Social Affairs' Department of International Cooperation, during a conference in Ha Noi last month.

Deputy Head of MoLISA's Employment Department Le Quang Trung said some Vietnamese employees may find it difficult to compete with foreign employees, and thus a legal framework to protect domestic employees and providing them with more benefits in accordance with international agreements should be taken into account.

While domestic employees need to improve their competency, the Government also needs to enact a policy to protect Vietnamese employees by stipulating a language requirement for foreign employees, said Trung.

"There should be a regulation stipulating that foreign employees must be able to speak Vietnamese to be allowed to work in Viet Nam," said Deputy General Head of MoLISA's Social Insurance Thai Phuc Thanh.

The Department of Labour, Invalids and Social Affairs has implemented measures to manage expats working in Viet Nam, including administrative procedures on granting working permits, an online expat management system and a pilot programme of re-granting working permits through online means.

There were more than 76,000 foreign employees of 74 nationalities in Viet Nam in 2014. Among these, 58 per cent were Asian and 29 per cent were European employees, according to MoLISA.

According to the Expat Explorer survey conducted by HSBC in late December 2015, Viet Nam is regarded as the most attractive country in Asia for expats.

About 68 per cent of the 22,000 survey participants working in Viet Nam – foreign employees from all over the world - said they could save more money working in Viet Nam. — VNS



CLARIFICATION

An article published in Viet Nam News on February 15, 2016, titled "Expats with degrees forego work permits", said that "Foreigners with bachelor's degrees and at least three years of experience working in their respective fields are no longer required to obtain work permits in Viet Nam". However, it should be noted that those eligible are specialists, managers, CEOs or technicians who come to work in Viet Nam for no more than 30 days at a time, and no more than 90 days per year. They must also satisfy other conditions regarding visas, employers, certifications, etc. A circular will be issued soon to provide guidance on the application of the decree. We will continue to keep you updated when more information is available.

The Editor

http://vietnamnews.vn/society/282319/expats-with-degrees-forego-work-permits.html

And this:

English teachers at language centers will still need work permits.


http://www.thanhniennews.com/society/vietnam-to-ease-employment-rules-for-foreigners-in-all-lines-of-work-59311.html

[gastropod]

Hi, I'm in Vietnam and I've just been offered a full-time job by a school that wants to get me a work permit. I can supply all of the documentation that everyone seems to list in the numerous "what teachers need to provide to get a WP in Vietnam" web posts, but I'm also being told by the school that there is an additional requirement that no one ever seems to mention in any of these lists - and it's a BIGGIE! It seems that you must also have a minimum of 5 years' teaching experience, of which you must provide certified proof! I only have a little over 1 year's experience but I've worked mostly part-time for several schools and I very much doubt that I could get certified proof from half of them. I have searched the web and have found a couple of legal articles that state that this is indeed the law.
http://tuoitrenews.vn/education/20715/vietnams-new-rules-on-work-permits-trouble-foreign-teachers
["Under the circular, foreigners who are to be recruited as teachers must follow the same regulations applied for experts, in which they need a document that proves they have at least a university degree and five years or more of experience in the field that they are expected to teach in Vietnam."]
http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=13cb849d-a436-479a-8e50-7f3f061ae628
["Generally, under current regulations, foreign “experts” and “teachers” must have both at least a college-level degree and at least 5 years of working experience."]
Since I'm sure a great many teachers can't meet this requirement I'm wondering why no one in these forums never seems to even mention it. Can anyone enlighten me? :roll:

[TRH]

[gastropod]

Thanks very much TRH. Yes, I did read that. I don't understand legalese that well but at the time the article was written "Resolution 47" hadn't been passed into law. You'll also note that the article states "Concerned government agencies will have to amend current labor regulations, before the changes become law. However, legislative action is expected by the end of 2014." Since the school is telling me that evidence of teaching experience is still a requirement I assumed that "(not so) concerned government agencies" must have been dragging their heels all this time. Not that unusual in this part of the world. What I'm really wanting to find out is whether or not the degree + 5 yrs experience rule is still in force or not. Perhaps the school's application forms are just out of date? If anyone knows for sure or can tell me where I can get accurate information that would be awesome!

[Silvester]

Look at it this way, your interpretation of this new decree will be moot if the local authorities decide that you are in violation of the law. How are you going to argue against that? Be safe than sorry. Do what is asked and let the next guy test out the new law.

[gastropod]

Thank you Silvester. You are right. Thankfully my employer has come to an arrangement with the local authorities and they have agreed to issue me a work permit. All straight up and legal.

[Prof.Gringo]

[spycatcher reincarnated]

Quite a few years ago foreign lawyers managed to persuade the Vietnamese government that they shouldn't need work permits. The Vietnamese government agreed and changed the procedures so that they could no longer be offered work permits and the procedures for proving that they were qualified lawyers was more complicated than actually getting work permits.

Wouldn't get too excited yet as the devil will be in the details and the actual implementation of them.