| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
jimpellow
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 913
|
 Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:06 am Post subject: Getting Your Pension Back How-To Article |
 |
|
I came across this and thought it may be of service to some when they leave the Middle Kingdom. I am of the odd opinion that many simply never try to get this form of "forced savings" back. Few ever seem to ask about it, or complain how they were screwed out of it due to some school or bureaucratic error.
http://www.beijingrelocation.com/blog/before-leaving-beijing-get-your-chinese-pension-back/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
LarssonCrew
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I can't actually imagine them paying out, and it would be endless paperwork. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
auchtermuchty
Joined: 05 Dec 2009
Posts: 344
Location: Beijing
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 2:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LarssonCrew wrote: |
| I can't actually imagine them paying out, and it would be endless paperwork. |
Surely there's an incentive to pay out, as the employer contribution is lost forever once you sign the form. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jimpellow
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 913
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 4:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| auchtermuchty wrote: |
| LarssonCrew wrote: |
| I can't actually imagine them paying out, and it would be endless paperwork. |
Surely there's an incentive to pay out, as the employer contribution is lost forever once you sign the form. |
That's an excellent point. It coincides with the theory that the government has enacted this in attempt to in some small way help balance the expected growing shortfalls in the national pension plan.
I just personally can't imagine at least one person sitting on it too long during the process, which is supposed to begin three days before one leaves the country. I think we will read one day of an enraged teaching killing some Chinese person because their 7 year refund was not completed due to a previous commitment to nap all day.
I would also think that unethical employers might use it as leverage, look for kickbacks on it like the release letter, etc. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
auchtermuchty
Joined: 05 Dec 2009
Posts: 344
Location: Beijing
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| jimpellow wrote: |
| auchtermuchty wrote: |
| LarssonCrew wrote: |
| I can't actually imagine them paying out, and it would be endless paperwork. |
Surely there's an incentive to pay out, as the employer contribution is lost forever once you sign the form. |
That's an excellent point. It coincides with the theory that the government has enacted this in attempt to in some small way help balance the expected growing shortfalls in the national pension plan.
I just personally can't imagine at least one person sitting on it too long during the process, which is supposed to begin three days before one leaves the country. I think we will read one day of an enraged teaching killing some Chinese person because their 7 year refund was not completed due to a previous commitment to nap all day.
I would also think that unethical employers might use it as leverage, look for kickbacks on it like the release letter, etc. |
I think outside of the first-tier cities it will be harder to get back, but gradually things will improve. I'd expect that the 15 years of payments needed by everyone (foreign and Chinese) to qualify for (some kind of) a pension will be adjusted downwards. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jimpellow
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 913
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 5:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
"I'd expect that the 15 years of payments needed by everyone (foreign and Chinese) to qualify for (some kind of) a pension will be adjusted downwards."
I don't believe I agree with this. China's screwed-up demographics is creating a situation where there will be quickly skyrocketing deficits. Hard to increase payouts in any form when this is true.
Since a foreigner cannot retire in China, in but a few rare cases like being married to a Chinese person, the majority of the social tax ends up being a direct money grab against foreigners, and a huge wage suppressor by dramatically increasing overhead on the employer. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LarssonCrew
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
They'll just make it take years, no one will hang around.
It takes 4 weeks to issue your Residence Permit in Shaanxi, 4 weeks, can you imagine how long it'll take just to get your pension contribution back?
Also, have any foreigners ever used the 'national health insurance'? My friends who are Chinese rinse this pretty bad and buy a ton of stuff like rice, cooking oil etc. from the pharmacy to 'use it up.' |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I use the insurance to buy medicine. I have bought medicine for my wife's aunt several times, it is not available in their hometown, and then they put the cash into my wife's bank. I have bought those tiger balm strips for neck pain. I also get medicine for my son/wife, and used it to stock a first aid kit in the house. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
auchtermuchty
Joined: 05 Dec 2009
Posts: 344
Location: Beijing
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 3:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jimpellow wrote: |
"I'd expect that the 15 years of payments needed by everyone (foreign and Chinese) to qualify for (some kind of) a pension will be adjusted downwards."
I don't believe I agree with this. China's screwed-up demographics is creating a situation where there will be quickly skyrocketing deficits. Hard to increase payouts in any form when this is true.
Since a foreigner cannot retire in China, in but a few rare cases like being married to a Chinese person, the majority of the social tax ends up being a direct money grab against foreigners, and a huge wage suppressor by dramatically increasing overhead on the employer. |
Most countries have shorter minimum contribution periods. There's currently a huge difference between 14 years of contributions (just get your contributions back) or 15 years (a pension based on your contributions plus the much larger employer contributions) that I don't think it can last. It's grossly unfair to women who gave up work to take care of the kids but might have had many years of decent contributions. Most people in China will contribute more than 15 years, so the overall cost of including a few more is not going to be great. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I am getting confused by the quotes here, are people expected to read back and find who quoted whom?
Where is this 15 years coming from? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jimpellow
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 913
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It was mentioned in the article. The 15 years is reportedly how long it takes to be vested in the pension system.
This is interesting: "If you reach the age of pension and if you have contributed to Chinese Pension scheme for longer than 15 years AND you reside outside China, you will receive monthly social insurance benefits."
So actually it sounds like you need to leave the Middle Kingdom in order to be eligible for the benefit. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
auchtermuchty
Joined: 05 Dec 2009
Posts: 344
Location: Beijing
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jimpellow
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 913
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 10:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think you are correct on that, though it is vague.
That was an interesting article. Thanks.
Somewhat predictable in that almost all of these social ponzi schemes end up going down the same path to destruction.
It would certainly get me thinking if the Chinese pension plan was part of my retirement strategy. I certainly do not allow the US scheme to be part of mine. "Trust us, the money will be there for you" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
auchtermuchty
Joined: 05 Dec 2009
Posts: 344
Location: Beijing
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jimpellow wrote: |
It would certainly get me thinking if the Chinese pension plan was part of my retirement strategy. I certainly do not allow the US scheme to be part of mine. "Trust us, the money will be there for you" |
Yes, I think it's best to think of anything from the Chinese scheme as an unexpected bonus.
I remember in the late nineties I read (on here, in fact) that it was next to impossible to get pension contributions back from the Korean Teachers' Pension Fund, but I managed to get the money without too much trouble. I think people should be optimistic and try to get back money paid in China. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jimpellow
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 913
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| auchtermuchty wrote: |
| jimpellow wrote: |
It would certainly get me thinking if the Chinese pension plan was part of my retirement strategy. I certainly do not allow the US scheme to be part of mine. "Trust us, the money will be there for you" |
Yes, I think it's best to think of anything from the Chinese scheme as an unexpected bonus.
I remember in the late nineties I read (on here, in fact) that it was next to impossible to get pension contributions back from the Korean Teachers' Pension Fund, but I managed to get the money without too much trouble. I think people should be optimistic and try to get back money paid in China. |
I think we are talking about 2 different things.
One is getting the contributions back as relates to the first article. I have read of a couple PRC survivors who stated they applied and did indeed get it back. Yet it seems that considering the timeframe and the process, one screw-up anywhere along the line and that little piggy bank stays in the Chinese vault.
I had expanded the discussion to how insolvent many pension type plans are in response to the article you posted. I think in the US, if you add in unfunded liabilities from the US government raiding Social Security and Medicare, total debt is upwards to 220 trillion. China seems worse already. Considering the demographics, along with a lack of immigration, it seems to me unwise to think that one will see a payout.
I would also think that cutting out foreigners from the system would also be very politically safe for the government to do when the time for hard choices is at hand. I didn't see lao wai rioting during my time in Jiangsu when they implemented this and the income tax a couple years previous. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
