Job Discussion Forums

[Florian]

Hello guys

I am not a native speaker, got an IELTS score of 7.0, but I am white and spent 5.5 years in the UK, and could show a UK residency card (not a British passport, as it would cost a lot of money).

Got a university degree in food technology (I know it's not relevant...). I don't have experience in teaching, but definetely planning to spend my time and money on a one month course in Vietnam before starting to look for a job, possibly a TESOL course in Danang.

So I am just wondering about my chances to find a teaching job in Da Nang, Nha Trang or any coastal town or city in Vietnam. I know that Danang and Nha Trang is flooded with English teachers, but what about other parts of the coast? And is it REALLY so hard to find a job in Da Nang or Nha Trang? I would be OK for like 8-10 USD/hour if I could live in one of these cities.

[skarper]

Hmmn.

Well, you could surely find some work. Not with any of the even semi-reputable schools though. 8-10 USD an hour is not a living wage in Vietnam. You would probably manage to get 15 USD at peak hours and nothing much outside that. Say you work 10 hours at weekends and 10 hours on weekdays you'd make 300USD a week - at best. But no holiday pay, no tax paid, no health insurance or security. If they turn round one week and say you have no classes or no pay for the classes you taught you have no recourse at all.

You cannot live like a local and have expenses with visas and air travel that are not sustainable long term. Even in the best case you will work hard and struggle to live on what you make.

Others may well chip in but I suspect most will be discouraging.

Maybe you really want to live by the beach and have a 'working holiday' lifestyle but TEFL is neither a holiday nor much of a career even for native speakers with serious credentials.

If you took the money you would lose in a 6 month sojourn [say 500 usd a month for 6 months plus your airfare and visa costs] and just had a 1-2 month holiday you'd probably get more out of it.

That said, given your level of English you could probably do most of the kids teaching jobs as well as many who are native speakers and qualifications/experience.

It is hard work though especially in your first 2 years and the lower tier employers that often have no resources beyond a whiteboard and some rubbish textbook the kids are forced to buy and you are forced to use.

Look twice before you leap.

[ExpatLuke]

This is honestly the strangest post I've ever read on these forums... Clicking the website, was .... an experience.

[skarper]

Cute sculptures. I wish you well with that venture.

I would recommend people start in one of the two big cities then try to relocate to a smaller place after 6 months or so.

Landing and trying to start from scratch in a saturated market is not a great idea. Some have landed on their feet, but for every one who does who knows how many do not.

The global economy being what it is, many people find even the weak job market in Vietnam attractive.

[Florian]

'Landing and trying to start from scratch in a saturated market is not a great idea. Some have landed on their feet, but for every one who does who knows how many do not.'

Actually I am just about to change my mind and head up to Hanoi. Everyone whom I contacted tells me the same thing: I would have much less chance to get a job outside of Hanoi or HCMC, and some folks states that life in rural places can be very boring, since there are no places to visit and foreigners can only talk to a very limited number of local people, due to the lack of their English skills. However, what I still don't know much about are rural, but coastal towns.

[sigmoid]

As usual, the best thing to do if you are wondering if it is possible to for you to teach English in Vietnam is to get on the "information superhighway" and search for job ads and the websites of schools. In this way, you can send messages via e-mail to the hiring managers/directors of these schools and find out if they have any interest in you and vice versa.

Here's Hanoi for you. Keep it as a last resort:

http://www.thanhniennews.com/society/hanoi-will-need-20-billion-to-fix-its-alarming-congestion-60003.html

There are numerous coastal cities from Vung Tau up to Hai Phong. Yes, it's going to be boring, but that's the nature of VN, even in big cities. There aren't a lot of schools in these places but there are some and new ones are opening. Most of them aren't very good but you can still find a couple that are OK to work for.

With your background, you should also look into the F&B industry. There is a vague chance you might find something at an internationally-owned hotel or resort.

Anyway, just start networking online (including social media) so that when you arrive you are already in contact with a number of people and hopefully have some interviews/meetings set up.

[Florian]

'As usual, the best thing to do if you are wondering if it is possible to for you to teach English in Vietnam is to get on the "information superhighway" and search for job ads and the websites of schools. In this way, you can send messages via e-mail to the hiring managers/directors of these schools and find out if they have any interest in you and vice versa.'

But... at the moment I don't have a TEFL paper (I want to get one though) and I am in the UK, so I can't see why any company would be interested in me under these conditions, even if they would be otherwise happy with me if I could just pop in at the school with my Celta certification in my hand.

Do you know about language schools who offer jobs after the TEFL course to non-natives as well? At least I have white skin...

[skarper]

I think you'd have to be on the ground to get any traction.

A TEFL cert seems like an dodgy investment in your case. You will never qualify for a work permit since you are not a native speaker.

It might help you to actually teach but at the levels you will be operating it will more than likely just frustrate you more because you know what you could do if you had resources, a class of compatible levels, less than 20 students - etc.

Finding and reading a half dozen good books that are assigned CELTA reading will probably do you as much good in the short term.

You are not in any case planning to make EFL a career, just a means to an end.

[Florian]

Okay, Skarper, I know that it is not going to be very easy, but I do know about non native teachers in Vietnam, I did get in touch with one of them who has a youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwH_9J6S_RCzebcS1kOZt5Q

This guy, Dan is doing well, has a family in HCMC and seems to be satisfied with his life. I can't see why he would be frustrated, or why would I be frustrated in his place. In the UK anyone (except IT experts and medics) from Eastern Europe can only have low jobs and we are treated like rubbish. I honestly don't even know any Easterner who could manage to get at least a job interview for any job better than a warehouse one. Now this is frustrating, but if I had an acceptable teaching job in Vietnam, I would say it is fair enough that the well paid jobs (like over 1500 USD/month) are for people who have better English skills than I have.

What I am saying is that I just don't know what to think really. It might be that Dan is only one of the few non-native speakers who could find a job, and most other people with a similar background needed to go back to Europe with no savings left. I really don't want this to happen to me...

[skarper]

Strong accent on that guy, but he is pretty good at English. Is he Russian?

Anyway - the key point is that work Permits are not available for non-native speakers and often not forthcoming for native speakers.

His advice is sound and seems to agree with what I am trying to put across.

Sure - some work is possible. A job? Not really. You will be able to work casual, low paid hour at peak times. Very little outside of that. Over time depending on your character, skills and good fortune you may build up to about 20 hours a week at $15 USD and hour average. It is very hard to break 20 hours a week because all the classes are at the same time. Evenings 7-9pm and weekends from 8am-6pm.

[Florian]

He is Romanian. I guess unlike me, he didn't live in an English speaking country before going to Vietnam.

What I REALLY want to know that how big is the risk that I would need to come back to the UK with empty pocket? This is my 6th year working at low jobs, so I am OK with any inconvinience except sleeping under the bridge and looking for food leftover in bins.

'Anyway - the key point is that work Permits are not available for non-native speakers and often not forthcoming for native speakers.'

Note that I could actually GET a British passport now that I have been living in this country for a long time, but I don't want to spend 1000+ pounds unless if it really makes a difference.

Anyway, the passport requirement for a work permit has been mentioned a lot of times, I know that job offers include this very often, but is there any official source which clearly states which passports are accepted? In Vietnamonline, as you can see, preferred nationality is clearly a not given information.

http://www.vietnamonline.com/az/work-permit-for-foreigners-in-vietnam.html

'REQUIREMENTS:

In order to apply for a work permit, you must meet the following conditions:

› Over 18 years old and have adequate health condition to match the demand of the job.
› High degree of specialized knowledge, qualification and technology; experienced in management, business and other professions that the domestic labors cannot currently conduct efficiently.
› If foreigners want to work in special jobs in education or health, they are required to meet all requirements of conducting health and education work of the Vietnamese authorities.
› Have no criminal record in their living country, Vietnam or other countries; being not under any warrant of arrest or jailing by the Vietnamese or foreign policemen.'

[skarper]

I think we've covered it pretty well. You will have an uphill struggle but if you persist you have a good chance of finding work and getting by.

You should not put an extra hurdle in your way by trying to start in a prime location. Go where the job supply is bigger than the pool of ideal applicants.

I'm sure you would do as well as many Native speakers since you have IELTS 7.0 and have lived full time in the UK for so long. I've got nothing against non-NEST English teachers and arguably they can be more effective than even the most motivated NEST since they have learned the target language as an outsider and have insights we can never acquire.

Bottom line - come by all means but don't expect an easy ride and keep some emergency funds in case it all goes awry.

The risk is significant but life is always a risk.

[Florian]

'You should not put an extra hurdle in your way by trying to start in a prime location. Go where the job supply is bigger than the pool of ideal applicants.'

I now absolutely agree with that and will be focusing on Hanoi instead a prime location.

'I'm sure you would do as well as many Native speakers since you have IELTS 7.0 and have lived full time in the UK for so long.'

I hope that either a British citizenship OR even a UK residency card (which is a much cheaper option) would be some sort of adventage over other non-native speakers. I even could imagine that it would sound promising to state that 'I am from the UK, though my nationality is Hungarian'.

'The risk is significant but life is always a risk.'

Well, in my situation, it still might be a better option to take the risk than to just stay in the warehouse I work for and ask myself every single day that why do I need to do a physical job...

[skarper]

Though not a prime piece of TEFL meat in the eyes of the consumers you are far more palatable than some folks who are competing with you.

Warehouse work is very tedious and physically draining. EFL with young learners [or even older ones] can also be demanding on your energy levels of course. This is another reason why breaking over a 20 hour work week is problematic. You just won't have the energy. 20 hours contact teaching is like 40 hours of normal work. Plus you'll have to prepare and commute to several sites during heavy traffic and it's easily a 50+ hour job.

Over time it would get better. You'll waste less time preparing and may be able to pick and choose to avoid the 2 hour cross town bike rides between one hour classes...

[sigmoid]

Florian -


You seem to have some misconceptions about the TEFL industry in SE Asia. Basically, it's a free-for-all where everybody regardless of age, nationality, qualifications, experience, etc. has at least some slim chance of getting paid to teach English somewhere (with the exception of Singapore and Brunei). Qualifications and experience can help you get paid more, of course.

Many people do OK, and some do better than others. But very few people crash and burn completely, and most of those who do have very serious serious alcohol/drug/mental problems. Mild cases, OK, no problem.

At the same time, a LOT of people move on at some point as life in VN, especially in the big cities, is fairly unappealing due to the overpopulation, cramped living spaces, traffic, pollution, flooding, noise, petty crime, scams, rip-offs, culture shock, bland greasy food, boredom, etc.

Again, if you get on the internet and start networking today, you'll probably find at least a few schools that say, "Let us know when you get here and we'll talk more". Recruiting internationally is the norm now and some schools are looking for guys like you that have no demands and are willing to work more hours for less money.

The economy in VN is currently doing relatively well, and the cost of living is low. Demand for English is still steady, especially for the kids. If you are pretty good-looking, presentable, reasonable, responsible, reliable, friendly and personable and can speak clearly and loudly, you've got what many schools are looking for.