Job Discussion Forums

[Florian]

sigmoid:

Misconception is not a good word. I simply don't know much about people who fail to get a job in Vietnam, because only those people has blogs, vlogs, or even some comments on expat forums who didn't crash and burn.

How can it be boring to live in Vietnam? Most of all, I thought it is both easy and worth it to get in touch with Vietnamese ladies. I am not talking about a sexpat way of life, just an actual relationship with a LADY who hasn't been infected by feminism. I would rather stay MGTOW than to have a trash life what most men in a relationship have around me in the UK, but yet, I definetely want to have a family at some point of my life.

'The economy in VN is currently doing relatively well, and the cost of living is low. Demand for English is still steady, especially for the kids. If you are pretty good-looking, presentable, reasonable, responsible, reliable, friendly and personable and can speak clearly and loudly, you've got what many schools are looking for.'

I am OK with this, what I don't have is native English or a UK passport (just a residency card).

[nomad soul]

[Florian]

'Seriously, if you feel you don't have what it takes to teach EFL in Vietnam, then figure out other non-teaching, income-generating options that are realistic for your situation. This is a no brainer.'

What made you state that? I just described my strenghts and weaknesses really...

[nomad soul]

[skarper]

We have had a spate of people on here lately who ask for advice then argue about what the advice is.

It can get frustrating for those of us who are trying to help.

That said, there is a certain vein of self interest we have in posting [I do anyway].

The more desperate and clueless newbies arrive in Vietnam seeking work the harder it is for those of us with qualifications and experience to leverage that into a livable long term lifestyle. I don't feel it's right to distort the facts in order to put people off but I do try to wash the sugar off the pill.

'Pre-feminist' Vietnamese women are looking for marriage, children and a financially secure husband. There are some more independent women in the larger cities who have lived abroad and can 'date' westerners without wanting to get married but they are rare, older and often 'feminist' anyway.

A lot of men involved in long term relationships with Vietnamese women are as unhappy as those men you talk about in the UK.

You seem young. That will help you find work in some ways and as many western men here are older you may be able to get into a dating culture among early 20s women that is more casual. Even if I could have done that it was not what I wanted anyway.

I do understand how bad it is living in the UK as an outsider. I'm a 'real' EFL teacher who taught in the UK for years before 'W' invaded Iraq and the industry went into a death spiral. Many of my students were refugees or people from former eastern bloc countries looking to have a better life and it was a struggle for them. I lost count of the number of doctors, engineers and other professionals who were working in factories or warehouses.

So I get that Vietnam may be a better chance despite its limitations.

I just think the worst thing is to arrive expecting it to be easy only to find it's damn tough. It's a tough market now even for the ideal candidates. You will have to work hard, compromise a lot and there will be setbacks including getting screwed over by employers. You are exactly the kind of recruit they are looking for.

Forewarned is forearmed.

[Florian]

Skarper

'We have had a spate of people on here lately who ask for advice then argue about what the advice is. '

I appreciate the time you spend to share information with me, and I do agree with most of the things you have mentioned. I don't think I had an actual argument with you, maybe you didn't even mean it.

'A lot of men involved in long term relationships with Vietnamese women are as unhappy as those men you talk about in the UK.'

For what reasons exactly? Just being curious...

'You seem young. That will help you find work in some ways and as many western men here are older you may be able to get into a dating culture among early 20s women that is more casual. Even if I could have done that it was not what I wanted anyway. '

I am 36. If I can ask, do you have an expat wife, or live on your own?

'I just think the worst thing is to arrive expecting it to be easy only to find it's damn tough. It's a tough market now even for the ideal candidates.'

I don't expect it to be easy, but I do expect that my efforts will lead me somewhere. In the UK I wouldn't get any better job even if I still did my best. And that's what I don't want to do any longer: to ride a dead horse, to have exactly the same life as I had when I first came to the UK.

[Florian]

nomad soul

'Keep in mind you'll need start-up money for airfare, lodging, food, ground transportation, visa fees, etc. Add on an emergency fund for unexpected travel, medical expenses, loss of income... And then there's the cost of a TEFL course, if you're still focusing on teaching. Anyway, one of the other posters can give you a grand total on how much you'll need to save. Welcome to the real world.'

I will be able to have at least 5000 USD in savings by that time for all the cost you have mentioned, and I did obviously calculated the above mentioned costs. The only thing I don't have a clue about is the length of time with no income.

[skarper]

I don't feel we are arguing with each other.

It's just that when we say something about your likely situation in Vietnam you argue about it.

OK - maybe we don't know everything and what we cannot judge is your character.

Success or failure will depend on how hard you work. How much of a 'self starter' you turn out to be. How you respond to the inevitable setbacks and frustrations of life in Vietnam.

TEFL can be as easy as falling off a log for the ideal candidate. Young blonde women seem to be at a premium, followed by young blond men.

You will be prone to numerous slights based on your nationality. For instance - you may get some hours, work hard and the students appreciate your efforts and want you to keep teaching them - then you get terminated on no notice because they found a 'real native speaker' to take over your classes. This can be a real PITA and could happen numerous times.

You will work alongside some total deadbeats who earn 50% extra because they were born in the USA even though they write 'could of been' on the white board.

Now - some people can make headway against this but there are others who burn out.

You should know what you're getting into so you can be ready for it. There will be times you wish you could get back in the warehouse.

That said, that Romanian guy has done well and if he can maybe so can you.

I would advise you to steer clear of women during your first six months though. There are some real she-wolves in lambs-clothing.

I am married and do not regret it but I'm older and in some ways wiser than I was. It is not easy to do cross cultural marriage even if language is not a problem.

[Florian]

'It's just that when we say something about your likely situation in Vietnam you argue about it.
OK - maybe we don't know everything and what we cannot judge is your character.'

That's one thing, but other than that why don't you tell me something about the adventages of teaching English in Vietnam? Maybe then I wouldn't always feel that I have to defend myself...

'You should know what you're getting into so you can be ready for it. There will be times you wish you could get back in the warehouse.'

No, that's really not going to happen. Working at a warehouse is nothing but a slow suicide - not just many but most of the qualified people give up and burn out in here. You know what? Even just moving to a different town within the UK and doing the same shit job would make a difference, because at least something would happen.

'I am married and do not regret it but I'm older and in some ways wiser than I was. It is not easy to do cross cultural marriage even if language is not a problem.'

So... did you meet your wife in Vietnam at all? Because for me it is really not obvious that is that your own expereince what you are talking about, or not.

[nomad soul]

[skarper]

I think there is plenty online about the positives of EFL in Vietnam. I don't say there aren't positives.

You would find it harder to access the positives because of your situation. Money is no longer a major positive but is still adequate to pay the bills and have a bit over to save/spend on fun - unlike the UK.

You would earn about 60-80% of what a native speaker could make and you will have to work harder to get it. This knocks down a major plus point to a minor plus point.

I'm not going into personal details here but generally marriage in Vietnam is complicated and can be hard work. [Is it easy anywhere?]

The people who seem to have an easy life married to a much younger and sexy wife are basically rich old guys. You will never be that.

I'm not saying you can't meet someone and make a success of that relationship but if you expect it to be easy and that Vietnamese women are somehow submissive or 'pre-feminist' you are in for a RUDE AWAKENING.

The internet is full of job adverts for Asia which vaunt the climate, the food, the people, the students, the opportunities to travel and do volunteer work. They make it sound like paradise. Almost too good to be true. And it is.

The climate can be exhausting. The food will get boring especially since the high end restaurants are largely out of your reach. The people are like people everywhere - some great but many not so great. There are some good students but a class of entitled rich brats all connected to some powerful government figures is a royal PITA. If you have an uncontrollable kid with mild autism or who gets off on talking back to the teacher you will get ZERO support from the school and if you make a fuss it will be you who is sent packing.

And you won't have the time or money to travel much or do volunteer work. You'll be scratching to get by week in week out.

In my case even the worst teaching situation in Asia has been better than unemployment or minimum wage work in the UK so maybe you should make the move. If I were in the UK now I would probably do so.

It is better in many ways and there are some great things about life here.

I've just seen too many young starry-eyed newbies fetching up in Asia expecting everything to be just perfect. Maybe I'm jaded.

Come if you want to - it might be alright. You only live once and if you can live with the consequences of making a mistake by all means take the risk.

To succeed you'll need humility, patience, a thick skin, hard work and some luck. But that is more or less the same for everyone who didn't win the lottery at birth.