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Colegio Bilingue Madison
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moonraven



Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 3094

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although Mike has never met either Marcos or the Moonraven, he seems to think he knows our ethnicity. Shame on him for his usual political incorrectness, and his misappropriation of Mixteca--an indigenous group--as his nom de guerre on this forum. Actually, Marcos and I are both mestizos.
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some waygug-in



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 339

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still no answers? Assuming that you have any.

Let me word it more simply then:

What would you have done?
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ann53



Joined: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 9
Location: Las Lomas de......

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ummmmm, Marcos is not mestizo. He is a blue eyed creole who attended and taught at Tec in Monterrey. He's also about 6'1 tall and is from Tamaulipas. Like you he enjoys playing liberator of the people. It would be interesting to find out where he was trained and where he got his guns from? Colombia perhaps? Central America? Or a PRI dinosaur trying to re-create another Tlatelolco to get themselves back into power.
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moonraven



Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 3094

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marcos never taught at the Tec de Monterrey, but he did teach at at least one of the federal universities in Mexico City (UAM). He is mestizo. Like the majority of folks here in Mexico. I am a fairly tall mestizo myself--and my brother is 6'3". Knock off the racism, will you?

Your grasp of Mexico's history is very tenuous. Tlatelolco refers to a plaza in Mexico City where a massacre of student protestors occurred on October 2, 1968. Marcos became visible as a spokesperson for the EZLN in January of 1994--when the PRI was still very entrenched in the power-- when the EZLN "declared war" against the PRI regime of Carlos Salinas.

As for his "training", Marcos apparently spent some time with the Sandinistas in Nicaragua in the 80s.

The largest percentage of the weapons used by any armed group--anywhere in the world--were purchased in the US.
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ann53



Joined: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 9
Location: Las Lomas de......

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tlatelolco was engineered by Echeverria ( a leftest PRI dinosaur) who wanted to seize control of the party. By blaming the incumbent (Diaz Ordaz) for he massacre he effectively seized power of PRI. It has just been announced that Echeverria will have to go before a tribunal regarding his actions in '68. Echeverria like many other populast/communist leaders sacrificed his own people in order to achieve power.

Oh and Marcos did teach at the Tec, a relative of mine was there with him, he was kicked out for being too lefty and rightly so.
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moonraven



Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 3094

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LEA--as he is known here in Mexico--did not blame D�az Ordaz for the massacre--D�az Ordaz publicaly took responsibility for it because his term was going to end and LEA was his chosen successor. I live here, sweetie, and I follow the news every day, so perhaps you would be interested to know that there is a considerable controversy raging because the judge indicated in the LEA genocide case denied the arrest order that was solicited for the ex-president and 9 others involved in the same indictment last Saturday.

LEA was also an agent for the CIA--there were not too many communist CIA agents running around Latin America back then. He has been accused of many things, but communist: never. Just which "communist" leaders sacrificed their own people in order to gain pwer in this hemisphere? That has traditionally been the modus operandi of the right wing dictators. Since you are clearly in the right wing camp, I do not see your point at all.

As for Marcos supposedly being booted out of the Tec for being too "lefty"--and your judgment of "and rightly so"--just who are you to be pontificating about someone being fired for his political leanings? You wouldn't have another relative--now deceased--called Joseph McCarthy, would you?
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ann53



Joined: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 9
Location: Las Lomas de......

PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True enough in Canada I cannot buy Mexican newspapers so I have to wait for the Economist to arrive.

"LEA" is a communist as anyone who expropriates land from the educated class and gives it to a bunch of half bred alcoholics who refuse to work and just take hand outs from the government is. You want to see the wonderful ejidos of Sonora I suggest you visit the once rich agriculture of the Yaqui valley and see what your "people" have done to it. It sits dry, barren and unused while the Mexican middle class pay taxes to support the so called "campesinos".

Actually I am a card carrying member of the NDP here in Canada but I guess by Mexican standards that makes me right wing - so be it. I am tired of seeing the business class in Mexico work so hard to improve and develop the country only to have it "kidnapped" buy the likes of the PRD & PRI and the multitudes of corrupt union leaders with lear jets and huge US bank accounts.
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moonraven



Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 3094

PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I had better not touch the elements of your extremely toxic post. I have been working on a book for almost 2 years now about the history of agrarian reform in Latin America. One of the key factors in that sad history is precisely the kind of class hatred you are expressing.

Note: Several of the national Mexican newspapers are online, but they won't give you your fix of ultraconservative editorializing that The Economist provides.
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MixtecaMike



Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 643
Location: Guatebad

PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toxic post? Maybe there is a forum for sorry Eurotrash and washed up old lefties where young and old can get together and drool over Che, Marcos, La Mench� and all those other "working class heroes."

Good luck with your book Moonraven, although aren't most people thoroughly bored with this topic of middle-class breast-beating?

You go on about Mexican culture etc., but you seem to want Mexicans to remain poor innocent campesinos, growing maize, sipping tequila and saying ma�ana.

Why the hell can't Mexicans progress and live in nice houses with good well-paid jobs, drive nice cars, have home internet connections, travel around the world, etc.

Your attitude to Mexico and Mexicans reeks of the "the white man's burden;" are you here to teach English or to maintain a corner of the world as you want it, poor and ignorant.

Sometimes I ask myself know why we even bite at your hatemail posts, but I think maybe it's in order to let the newbies know you are 100% NOT the true voice of anything.
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moonraven



Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 3094

PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nowhere on this forum have I ever indicated a committment to keeping anyone--Mexican or not--barefoot and snoozing behind a cactus. I would not be working here as an educator--not only as an English teacher--to empower students who have been shortchanged in their formal education all along the road to reach the goals they have set for themselves if that were the case. I also do not complain on this forum about the lack of motivation of my students--because I have not seen that.

A word to the Wise Teacher: there are MANY students who find Che inspirational--along with Marcos--and Rigoberta Menchu (who received the Nobel Peace prize for struggling to heal her country after the genocidal fury of Guatemala's series of US-backed dictators) and Hugo Ch�vez. If you made an attempt to relate to what your students find compelling, instead of focusing on that big ego that you told us about, perhaps you wouldn't have to complain about them?

As for your rhetorical question about the lack of progress in Mexico, most Mexicans would answer you that their government in increasing the poverty percentage daily by continuing to apply the same bankrupt neoliberal measures that they have applied since 1982--the same measures that you have been the cheerleader for on this forum.

And stop patronizing "newbies" by telling us and them that you are protecting them from being in some way influenced by my views. They may be new to ESL teaching, but they weren't born yesterday, and they are perfectly capable of making their own decisions. Just like your students are equally capable.
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MixtecaMike



Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 643
Location: Guatebad

PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

moonraven wrote:
I have been working on a book for almost 2 years now about the history of agrarian reform in Latin America.


To paraphrase Moonraven in another post

Probably nobody on this forum is remotely likely to buy your book, so why hijack it with literary propaganda.

Bye for the weekend from this little corner of Oaxaca, avoid any election day crowds and have a safe one all, including Moonraven Razz
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moonraven



Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 3094

PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike,

1. Last I checked History and Literature were 2 different fields.

2. It's a little hard to promote a book without mentioning either its title, or its author--and even more so when the book is still on diskettes.

3. Folks on this forum are not the target audience for any of my writing--especially since the majority is in Spanish--including my book-in-progress about agrarian reform. It's for Latin American readers.

Interesting to see that you have apparently now developed a female doppleganger. With the exit of the not sorely missed Gringo Greg, I guess you feel you have to be at least two identities to insult me. Good luck....and have a great weekend.
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some waygug-in



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 339

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="some waygug-in"]What?

You still haven't told me one thing. What do you suppose I could have done? I gave the marks honestly. My contract was finished. I left. I was told that the 2 students that I gave failing grades would probably come by a day or 2 after I was gone and get their "certificates" in any case.

What do you think I could have done?

Cancelled my flight? Camped out on the doorstep and tried to make sure that the marks wouldn't be changed? Cancelled my future employment prospects, just to make a point about honest grades? You are a very odd person, to say the least. How in God's green Earth do you continue to say that I this was my fault or that I could have done anything about it?

You certainly do seem to love to hurl accusations. If you had any clue about the situation in question, which you don't, perhaps you would be able to explain some options.


What would it have cost me? Well, considering the lost employment, and the loss of my return flight roughtly about 4 or 5 thousand dollars. That's assuming that I would be successful at blocking the entrance to the school, and preventing the said students from stopping by. Then having to try and spend another few months securing future employment.

Your acusations are idiotic and you know it. You are just afraid to admit that you were wrong. Come on Moon baby, admit it, we've all been wrong now and again. No shame in that. If all you can do is offer more insults and false accusations, then this shows that you have no suggestions as to what I could have done. What does that say about you? Come on girl, ease that guilty concience. You can do it.
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