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slapntickle
Joined: 07 Sep 2010
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| 50% of the age group now go to university. It used to be 5%. |
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Dedicated
Joined: 18 May 2007
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:56 am Post subject: |
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The decline in standards goes back to the 1990s when the Labour Government decided to create the target of having 50% of students in higher education.
This led to what have been called Mickey Mouse degrees in subjects such as David Beckham Studies; Harry Potter Studies; Golf Management; Surf Science etc. These are perceived as being intellectually less rigorous than traditional academic degrees. Yet the graduates have flooded the labour market and many remain unemployed. Having a degree has lost its previous prestige of indicating intellectual capacity.
This problem was compounded by the conversion of polytechnics into new universities from 1992 onwards. This had led to the annual grade rise in A level exams necessary for getting into university.
Top universities will not accept these ' soft option' A levels such as General Studies, Critical Thinking, Media Studies etc |
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slapntickle
Joined: 07 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| Dedicated wrote: |
| This led to what have been called Mickey Mouse degrees in subjects such as David Beckham Studies; Harry Potter Studies; Golf Management; Surf Science etc. These are perceived as being intellectually less rigorous than traditional academic degrees. |
Don't put the blame on the gimmicky subjects . . . even so called intellectually and rigorous academic degrees have been dumbed down and tweaked so that a pass is guaranteed to any fee-paying student. I teach at a university in London and it's embarrassing how low the pass mark is and how bad the students are. Further the manager of the language centre expects a pass, so you might be perceived as a troublemaker if you don't pass weak students. More worrying in these days of economic uncertainty is that fact that you may not be invited back to teach the following summer. It's all a big for-profit scam and this trend of degree devaluation will only get worse as schools get more desperate to get bums on seats. |
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Dedicated
Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 972
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:11 am Post subject: |
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Let's not confuse the issues here.
The original title of this thread was " Degree value declined sharply over the last 20 years'. The growth in university education is affecting graduate earning power because supply has exceeded demand. 1 in 3 workers now has a degree, up from 1 in 10 in 1985. This is referring primarily to home students as very few overseas graduates remain in the UK after graduation.
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| ...a pass is guaranteed to any fee-paying student |
This is a very sweeping generalization and clearly depends which university you are working at. Certainly it does not apply where I work, a world high-ranking university and now anyway all students whether home or overseas are fee-paying. I guess you are referring to overseas students as you go on to talk about a Language Centre.
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| Further the manager of the language centre expects a pass...you may not be invited back to teach the following summer |
Language centres do not award degrees. They act as a service department teaching overseas students to acquire the English language and academic skills necessary to enter a department, which is usually the equivalent of IELTS 6.5-7.0 depending on the department. I totally agree that some have poor English, but even if they pass to the department, they will probably not be successful in their degree course. We track students as they progress and weak students often fail. However, some may not be great at English but have outstanding skills in Maths or Computer Science, which need little English but ability to construct algorithms.
[/quote] I teach at a university in London and it's embarrassing how low the pass mark is and how bad the students are[quote]
Which pass mark are you referring to? The Language Centre pass mark or a specific department? |
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slapntickle
Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Dedicated wrote: |
Language centres do not award degrees. They act as a service department teaching overseas students to acquire the English language and academic skills necessary to enter a department, which is usually the equivalent of IELTS 6.5-7.0 depending on the department. I totally agree that some have poor English, but even if they pass to the department, they will probably not be successful in their degree course.
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Language centres act as pathways to degree courses. The language centre should be the gatekeeper, ensuring that the requisite language skills are met before progression is allowed. However, this often isn't happening. Pass marks are set purposely low so that students pass and move to the next level so that the university get their fees. At my university, the pass mark in the language centre is low and likewise in many of the departments themselves. The Business and Marketing Schools are infamous for giving away degrees. A handful of my ex-students have actually told me that in truth they should have failed but were quite surprised to pass . . . and pass with flying colours!
With the visa rules tightening up and more schools being given the right to grant degrees, is it any wonder that schools are dumbing down their degrees so that they can get the numbers they need to survive? The consequences of this however is that many students have meaningless degrees, prestigious institutions are losing their prestige, and employers are worried about hiring impostors.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/584050/British-universities-dumbing-down-degrees-more-students-graduate-top-class-honours |
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gregory999
Joined: 29 Jul 2015
Posts: 372
Location: 999
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| slapntickle wrote: |
| At my university, the pass mark in the language centre is low and likewise in many of the departments themselves. |
What is the pass mark in your language centre?
30%? 35%? 40%?
| Quote: |
| The Business and Marketing Schools are infamous for giving away degrees. A handful of my ex-students have actually told me that in truth they should have failed but were quite surprised to pass . . . and pass with flying colours! |
No QA control in these schools? They pass failed students?
How come? |
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slapntickle
Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| gregory999 wrote: |
| slapntickle wrote: |
| At my university, the pass mark in the language centre is low and likewise in many of the departments themselves. |
What is the pass mark in your language centre?
30%? 35%? 40%?
| Quote: |
| The Business and Marketing Schools are infamous for giving away degrees. A handful of my ex-students have actually told me that in truth they should have failed but were quite surprised to pass . . . and pass with flying colours! |
No QA control in these schools? They pass failed students?
How come? |
Are you playing devil's advocate? The article I quoted from the Express makes it crystal clear that numbers can be manipulated to give you the required outcome. As the article suggests, the problem is rife. Long gone are the days when you had to get more than 70% to gain a good pass. |
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Dedicated
Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 972
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:05 am Post subject: |
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