Job Discussion Forums

[Mattingly]

[RustyShackleford]

A lot of Asia seems to basically be libertarian. Whether China, Thailand or Japan, with varying degrees of authoritarian government in it all.

Compared to what Saudi's got going on, I've really come to appreciate it.

[1st Sgt Welsh]

[RustyShackleford]

Work ethic and pride in actually doing work is what it is.

I wouldn't trust a single one of my current students with feeding a goldfish.

Compared to my Vietnamese students, who, when tasked, could start producing basic food and juice businesses and plan ideas; Japanese ones who had respect and obedience to rules; or even Spanish ones who had good senses of humour and questioned things intelligently - and these were 12 year olds!

[ExpatLuke]

So the Socialist Republic of Vietnam isn't Socialist?

I would argue most Vietnamese at least in the regions I've lived are very socialist at heart. Especially in Hanoi.

[RustyShackleford]

I'd say they can idealistically socialist - praising General Giap and Uncle Ho - while being practically capitalist - figuring out how to get the cash buy the iPhone and Air Blade.

[ExpatLuke]

[LettersAthruZ]

I'd hafta agree with Rusty completely!

In all my years in Viet Nam (all in The North), I have NEVER seen a people so individualistic, and so out for themselves, it's stunning.

By INDIVIDUAL standards, the Vietnamese make Europeans and North Americans look like Gods of Generosity by comparison.

As a SOCIETY, yeah, they can parade all that "Socialist" and "People's" stuff all they want.....nice ideas on paper, but, for some reason, in terms of giving and sharing, it never quite filtered down to the individual level......

....well, yeah, I mean, they ARE generous and sharing with their FAMILIES, but otherwise......naw......

[ExpatLuke]

I'd wager that you didn't connect very much with the people on a local level then... Because what I see is completely different. Most of what you're describing is just surface level stuff most foreigners who don't really take the time to get to know the culture would remark about.

Get down to the communities, neighborhoods, and what not, and you'll see how not "out-for-themselves" most Vietnamese really are. When someone wants to buy a new house do they go to the bank and get a loan? No, they go to all their friends, neighbors, coworkers and borrow money. And everyone chips in freely.

I could list dozens of examples like this, but somehow I feel ex-expats already have their minds made up and think they know all the answers.

[1st Sgt Welsh]

I saw many incidences whilst I was in Vietnam that would lead me to believe that the Vietnamese are a fairly 'communal' bunch in many respects. In Hanoi, I remember walking past a house, where the family was watching Vietnam play in the ASEAN Cup on their TV. Nothing remarkable about that, except there were about 15 random Vietnamese gathered out in the street who were openly looking in through the family's living room windows so that they could also take in the game. Nobody seemed to mind. When Vietnamese come back from holidays in their home towns/villages, it seemed customary for them to bring some snacks from their home province/s, which they share with everybody in the office. I never once had to put my hand in my pocket when I went out for a coffee or a meal with students, but, that may have had a lot to do with the fact that I was their teacher. All of the above are are just individual antecedotes so take them for whatever you think they are worth, but, personally, I certainly wouldn't expect to see them in every place I've been to.

However, the Vietnamese also struck me as natural entreprenuers. If a mother is staying at home, looking after the kids, then she will quite often have a side business where the front of the house doubles up as a cigarette stand, landry matt, etc. Often they wouldn't make much money out of it (selling a pack of smokes for 25,000 VND a hit isn't going to make anyone rich) but I actually personally admire this aspect of their culture and I like the fact that there are no government regulations stopping them from doing it. I've got a lot more respect for this than just seeing people sitting on their arse all day expecting hand-outs, which is what you'll see in a lot of countries, including, sadly, my own.

[RustyShackleford]

[Mattingly]

[1st Sgt Welsh]

[kurtz]

[ExpatLuke]

It's obviously not all roses. There's nowhere in the world that is. But unless you're connecting with the culture on a local level, like within a Vietnamese family, you're always going to just have an outsiders perspective. A lot of the conclusions you draw from this are going to be wrong.

I'd challenge you to sit down and talk to your students, friends, or coworkers about what they believe about certain aspects of life, government, and freedom. I think you'd find all their answers are extremely socialistic. But then again, you can't do this since you've already left the country.