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mitsui
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki
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 Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:40 am Post subject: |
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I hear good and bad things about it.
The bad things have been mentioned.
If you live in Kyoto, you better learn Japanese. |
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Sudz
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 438
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Why had one "better learn Japanese" in Kyoto? : ) |
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mitsui
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:00 am Post subject: |
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My impression is that people there are proud of their culture and they want to speak their language.
It is not like Tokyo, where you can find people who are able and/or willing to speak English. |
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Shakey
Joined: 29 Aug 2014
Posts: 199
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Tokyo is the best place to live in Japan. |
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move
Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 132
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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Kyoto certainly does have the reputation for being snooty especially when you compare to its loud, outgoing neighbor Osaka. When I moved here one of the first things people said about Kyoto was that it was really hot in summer and cold in winter. After going through all the niceties then they would eventually say that people here were stuck up.
I'm not so sure if people are two-faced or stuck up, but they are definitely proud of where they live. As the ancient capital and one of the few places spared during the war I think this is justified. I suppose people here are held at arm's length, treated with politeness but not really genuine warmth, but I kind of get that vibe from most Japanese people.
Had a drink at a bar last week though and the bartender was absolutely enthused that there was a foreigner in there who could speak Japanese. Most businesses are used to foreign customers so I don't think being able to speak it as necessary as living in the countryside. |
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Shakey
Joined: 29 Aug 2014
Posts: 199
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| move wrote: |
| ...people here are held at arm's length, treated with politeness but not really genuine warmth, but I kind of get that vibe from most Japanese people. |
The Japanese are Japanese. I've lived all over this country and they don't change. Why do so many people here believe that there is any or much difference? These are national personality traits or behaviors. The Japanese are not warm, outgoing or friendly people. Period. They are also distrustful of others, especially outsiders.
| move wrote: |
| Had a drink at a bar last week though and the bartender was absolutely enthused that there was a foreigner in there who could speak Japanese. |
That's not the attention that I'd appreciate. I've been in local bars for a drink and as soon as I notice people whispering about me or looking at me, I escape. I just want to have a drink but find myself being the panda in the zoo. It's like we are public property for their amusement - especially when they are drunk. And I can't stand being around them in those situations.
If they want to talk to me normally or if the bar staff treats me like any other patron, fine. I'm happy with that. But I don't want to be the center of attention or feel like I have to put on a performance or entertain them. Although I do see a lot of gaijin, mostly noobs, who enjoy putting on the song and dance and performing for them. But I hate it, and break away the second I see it start to happen. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Kanto people are so robotic. I have seen people walk past old ladies who have fallen on the stairs, and the such. I live here, and I am pretty surprised at how little people here have to do with each other. I have lived in Osaka, and though not perfect, thy aren't zombies. I really don't want to raise my kids in Kanto bth |
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move
Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 132
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| move wrote: |
| Had a drink at a bar last week though and the bartender was absolutely enthused that there was a foreigner in there who could speak Japanese. |
| Shakey wrote: |
That's not the attention that I'd appreciate. I've been in local bars for a drink and as soon as I notice people whispering about me or looking at me, I escape. I just want to have a drink but find myself being the panda in the zoo. It's like we are public property for their amusement - especially when they are drunk. And I can't stand being around them in those situations.
If they want to talk to me normally or if the bar staff treats me like any other patron, fine. I'm happy with that. But I don't want to be the center of attention or feel like I have to put on a performance or entertain them. Although I do see a lot of gaijin, mostly noobs, who enjoy putting on the song and dance and performing for them. But I hate it, and break away the second I see it start to happen. |
I don't know where you got all these details from. It's not like I was in Sam and Dave belting out "Greased Lightning" as people threw five-yen coins at my feet. I was in a bar, and the master talked to my friend and me like normal people. Some people like to go to bars to socialize. |
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Black_Beer_Man
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 453
Location: Yokohama
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Yokohama people must be among the least friendly in Japan. I live here. It's been 2.5 years now.
I lived in Tokyo for 5 years. They're not exactly the warmest people either, but slightly better than Yokohama people.
A Tokyo person explained to me that Yokohama people are very proud of their clean city with wide streets and ocean view. However, I don't get it. I see nothing interesting here. What's so interesting in Yokohama? The Red Brick building? Landmark Tower? Whoopty-doo.
A Yokohama teacher told me that the ward tax in Yokohama is among the highest in Japan.
I moved here to be close to my job. I am tired of my job and Yokohama, so I am gong to say "Sayonara" to both. 
In a nutshell, if you want to live in the Kanto, choose Tokyo, not Yokohama. That's my 2 cents. |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| don't know where you got all these details from. It's not like I was in Sam and Dave belting out "Greased Lightning" as people threw five-yen coins at my feet. I was in a bar, and the master talked to my friend and me like normal people. Some people like to go to bars to socialize |
In my neighbourhood, I frequent a little restaurant where I'm just local, like everybody else. I get to catch up with the regulars. It's really laid back.
When I take my guy along, who's an ibaraki transplant to Kanto, he becomes the focus of attention. It's a lot of fun.
About Yokohama - I used to visit frequently. Locals seem uneasy with foreigners, and I suspect it is the influence of the military bases.
I found that Chinatown was the most pleasant part of the city where people don't bat an eye at a foreign woman, and many speak Japanese as a second language. I kind of fit in. |
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victory7
Joined: 22 Mar 2016
Posts: 68
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Black_Beer_Man wrote: |
Yokohama people must be among the least friendly in Japan. I live here. It's been 2.5 years now.
I lived in Tokyo for 5 years. They're not exactly the warmest people either, but slightly better than Yokohama people.
A Tokyo person explained to me that Yokohama people are very proud of their clean city with wide streets and ocean view. However, I don't get it. I see nothing interesting here. What's so interesting in Yokohama? The Red Brick building? Landmark Tower? Whoopty-doo.
A Yokohama teacher told me that the ward tax in Yokohama is among the highest in Japan.
I moved here to be close to my job. I am tired of my job and Yokohama, so I am gong to say "Sayonara" to both.
In a nutshell, if you want to live in the Kanto, choose Tokyo, not Yokohama. That's my 2 cents. |
Amen to that re your less than impressed view of Yokohama. It is just an uninteresting place, period. It looks messy with that ugly highway going over the JR Station and surrounds, giving that area a boxed in, hard to find your way to something good feeling. There isn't a real centre to Yokohama.
Yes the harbour is nice and I must say I had lovely service at one of the restaurants along the waterfront. But along with Chinatown that is all. It's hard to find interesting places and it is not convenient to get to decent shopping area. It's just awful walking around the JR/Tokyu Line complex area. Especially with the horrible sight of unfinished construction going on. Why they need more concrete there I don't know.
Not enough seats at the cafes and restaurants around the main station - yeah right, I'm really going to line up for 20 minutes to sit in Starbucks. I also feel a kind of unwelcome vibe about the place - Tokyo people mind their own business and can be rude the way they see nothing wrong with barging you out the way with their shoulders on the train instead of behaving with a little courtesy, but they also can be very polite and even helpful provided you make an effort to speak Japanese.
I think the Yokohama vibe has less to do with military bases than the strong organised crime presence in Kanagawa. For its size there is a big Yakuza presence in Yokohama and far more concentrated than in Tokyo which has more of the groups but is big enough to not have that feeling around it.
Actually the feeling of Yokohama towards outsiders reminded me of Okayama. Okayama is cleaner and more pleasantly spread out but there is also a big organised crime presence there. It may be one of the reasons why Okayama people seem less friendly than other Japanese in the cities and places I've travelled to.
Okayama has the distinction for me of being the only city in Japan where I asked in very polite Japanese about something to do with the ticket machine at Okayama's main station, and got an earful from a well dressed woman about how it's not my business to ask her anything. I also got blanked by a couple of other Japanese people when I asked something politely in Japanese. Note I didn't ask people who were busy.
I also encountered women outside two different department stores who snapped at me not to waste the plastic cover for umbrellas after I accidently put holes in two of them and had to get fresh covers. Smiles at little dogs being walked by their owners met with sour looks and being obviously blanked - a lot of, if not most of the time, in Japan people like you looking with appreciation at their dogs. I also found Okayama people preferred to push past me and do it in small spaces to the side of me but could very clearly have just moved around me in more space without making any contact.
I haven't had these experiences anywhere else in Japan. Those kinds of experiences did take place in Korea so I have to say Okayama people have more in common with the ruder aspects of Korea than they would like to think. |
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Maitoshi
Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| It sounds like you've been around the block a few times in Japan and Korea, Victory. What kind of work do you do and and where would you most recommend living in Japan? |
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Black_Beer_Man
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 453
Location: Yokohama
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| victory7 wrote: |
Amen to that re your less than impressed view of Yokohama. It is just an uninteresting place, period. It looks messy with that ugly highway going over the JR Station and surrounds, giving that area a boxed in, hard to find your way to something good feeling. There isn't a real centre to Yokohama.
Yes the harbour is nice and I must say I had lovely service at one of the restaurants along the waterfront. But along with Chinatown that is all. It's hard to find interesting places and it is not convenient to get to decent shopping area. It's just awful walking around the JR/Tokyu Line complex area. Especially with the horrible sight of unfinished construction going on. Why they need more concrete there I don't know.
Not enough seats at the cafes and restaurants around the main station -
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Yokohama is a white (or maybe grey) elephant. I fully agree with you about JR Yokohama station. For a city that is trying to be one of Japan's showpieces, this station is ugly and very poorly planned.
I have gotten lost trying to get to Yokohama main post office by using the yellow direction signs. Twice when I tried, the designated east exit led me to a grey no-man's land of concrete, big roads and highways (with the post office nowhere to be seen). The west side has an ongoing construction site opposite the More's shopping center. Even a Japanese bartender that I spoke with at a bar nearby complained about it.
Lonely Planet Tokyo guidebook doesn't even list Yokohama in its day trip section because Yokohama has nothing interesting that Tokyo doesn't already provide. Kamakura and Hakone are there, but not Yokohama. |
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mitsui
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:14 am Post subject: |
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Maybe the only nice part is Yamate with a bit of history.
It is crowded but less than Tokyo is.
Yokohama is the second biggest city in Japan with 19 wards.
Mostly it is residential. |
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Sudz
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 438
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:03 am Post subject: |
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Having now lived in Kyoto for several months, I will say that it has mostly been a positive experience. I love walking, and Kyoto is a great place for it (particularly the east side of Kyoto). I have heard people complain about all the tourists here, though I got used to it pretty quickly (and there really aren't all that many in the area I live).
If there was a negative, I would say that the people here are a little less friendly and warm than their Osaka neighbors (generally). I can't confirm whether or not the people are 'snooty', though I have noticed hints of this. Also, while I find Kyoto to be the nicer of the two places, I do prefer the vibe of Osaka in some ways (feels quite casual for Japan).
Oh, and that summer was brutal! |
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