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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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 Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| TokyoLiz wrote: |
I'm already performing many of the duties of a regular teacher - teaching solo, writing syllabus and materials, teaching special koza, leading a club, attending (and sometimes chairing!) meetings, etc. |
Well, if that is the case, you're already doing the job of a licensed, full-time teacher...only without the appropriate license.
| TokyoLiz wrote: |
The admin has not mentioned tokubetsu menkyo to me. I don't know if it's wise for me to ask for one. As it is, I'm compensated well, enrolled in the teacher's association. and I can leave when my working hours are done (only occasional Saturday duties). Wouldn't I get heaped with more stuff to do if I had tokubetsu menkyo? |
No, you're already doing the job of a licensed teacher--including chairing meetings (as an unlicensed teacher)!  That said, if you got a license, they might try to pressure you into staying later each day...even if you had no more work for the day (see my answer below).
| TokyoLiz wrote: |
I work hard now, but I'm not run off my feet, working 'til 8pm like my Japanese colleagues. |
While I'm sure your Japanese colleagues are very busy too, a lot of what keeps them on-campus until 8 p.m. every night is peer pressure. Many of my former students are licensed teachers. All of them report that they feel pressured to stay late even if they have no more work--that staying "the latest" becomes competitive, and consistently leaving while others are still there shameful.
Like your Japanese colleagues, you also are teaching solo, writing syllabi and materials, teaching special koza, leading a club, attending and sometimes chairing meetings, etc. However, you still find it possible to leave most days at a reasonable time, right? As to what would happen if you got licensed...depends on both you and the culture at the school. I mean, do you think your colleagues will pressure you to act like them?
I only bring this up because I disagree with posts like Nemu_Yoake here:
| Quote: |
| The schools want stability, the BOEs want to save cost (with this, I agree). |
In my experience, schools (and colleagues) may tell you (and others) that they want stability, but time and again, these same schools then dump the experienced foreign ALT for a newbie. And many times, they use the "We wanted to keep you, but as you don't have a license..." excuse for not renewing. Bizarrely, this has nothing to do with whether "ALTs can't get used to schools' rules, a Japanese workplace and so on."
Nemu, as you're in Iwate, I'm sure you've heard about how one of your fellow ALTs (a woman) was suddenly let go last year with this same excuse...after working for eight years at a school (and setting up both an international exchange program and creating a full year's worth of English conversation curriculum). It was a pretty big story last year. Similarly, a high school teacher in Sendai (the next prefecture over from Iwate) was suddenly let go in December of last year...also after eight years on the job spent teaching solo, writing syllabus and materials, teaching special koza, leading a club, attending and sometimes chairing meetings. With him as well, there was no warning....
Will getting the proper menkyo stop this? No. Basically, if your workplace "colleagues" decide suddenly that they don't want you (and are willing to pay to get rid of you), then even a "tenured" faculty member can be terminated. That said, as I've posted before, workers here have a lot more protection than in many countries overseas (e.g., much better than the US). One example of this is that the longer you are on the job, the harder it becomes to non-renew without cause or to fire you without cause. (They can still do it, but if you challenge them through a union and/or court, the schools will usually pay the equivalent of several months' to one year's salary to make you go away.) Getting the license removes one possible cause (excuse), meaning that if they try to get rid of you, they will have to pay more. (Them applying for the license also demonstrates their loyalty to you, in my opinion.)
Whether or not you should ask is an interesting question. Do you have a colleague you're on really good terms with, one you see socially and feel you can trust? I'd bring it up with that person first--as a friendly question. I.e., don't make a big deal about it.
My two yen, anyway.
P.S. As Tokyoliz also suggests, BOEs are not going with ALT dispatch companies to save cost, but for convenience. These companies charge huge markups for finding and "managing" their foreign ALTs--often the equivalent of the yearly salary for each. |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 2:36 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, Taikibansei, for the food for thought.
I don't want to work 6 days on, past 7pm every night like my colleagues. The way I work is a gray area between Japanese and western expectations, but the risk, as you say, is that I have less security without the Tokubetsu menkyo.
What was the outcome from the two veterans whose contracts were not renewed? Were they compensated, or just ejected? |
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Nemu_Yoake
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 47
Location: Iwate
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
I only bring this up because I disagree with posts like Nemu_Yoake here:
| Quote: |
| The schools want stability, the BOEs want to save cost (with this, I agree). |
In my experience, schools (and colleagues) may tell you (and others) that they want stability, but time and again, these same schools then dump the experienced foreign ALT for a newbie. And many times, they use the "We wanted to keep you, but as you don't have a license..." excuse for not renewing. Bizarrely, this has nothing to do with whether "ALTs can't get used to schools' rules, a Japanese workplace and so on."
Nemu, as you're in Iwate, I'm sure you've heard about how one of your fellow ALTs (a woman) was suddenly let go last year with this same excuse...after working for eight years at a school (and setting up both an international exchange program and creating a full year's worth of English conversation curriculum). It was a pretty big story last year. Similarly, a high school teacher in Sendai (the next prefecture over from Iwate) was suddenly let go in December of last year...also after eight years on the job spent teaching solo, writing syllabus and materials, teaching special koza, leading a club, attending and sometimes chairing meetings. With him as well, there was no warning....
Will getting the proper menkyo stop this? No. Basically, if your workplace "colleagues" decide suddenly that they don't want you (and are willing to pay to get rid of you), then even a "tenured" faculty member can be terminated. That said, as I've posted before, workers here have a lot more protection than in many countries overseas (e.g., much better than the US). One example of this is that the longer you are on the job, the harder it becomes to non-renew without cause or to fire you without cause. (They can still do it, but if you challenge them through a union and/or court, the schools will usually pay the equivalent of several months' to one year's salary to make you go away.) Getting the license removes one possible cause (excuse), meaning that if they try to get rid of you, they will have to pay more. (Them applying for the license also demonstrates their loyalty to you, in my opinion.)
Whether or not you should ask is an interesting question. Do you have a colleague you're on really good terms with, one you see socially and feel you can trust? I'd bring it up with that person first--as a friendly question. I.e., don't make a big deal about it.
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Never heard of this woman's case before. But I was an ALT just for one year last year. I'd like to know the details, though. What reasons did they give her? She didn't have a TL, that's all? I'd like to hear the story from both sides.
I have a Japanese teaching license, but I have a one-year contract this year (sort of). I'm not sure whether they will be wanting to keep me after this year but, if they do, I'll normally have the same status as the other Japanese teachers (kyouyu). Or, they can tell me that my Japanese ability is not satisfactory enough, which I would understand, and they would keep me one more year under a one-year contract. It would be fair, because if I can't handle the same workload of administrative work as my new Japanese colleague, why would I be able to become a kyouyu? Or they can tell me that I'm not living up to their expectations and let me go. |
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Lamarr
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
In my experience, schools (and colleagues) may tell you (and others) that they want stability, but time and again, these same schools then dump the experienced foreign ALT for a newbie. And many times, they use the "We wanted to keep you, but as you don't have a license..." excuse for not renewing. Bizarrely, this has nothing to do with whether "ALTs can't get used to schools' rules, a Japanese workplace and so on."
Nemu, as you're in Iwate, I'm sure you've heard about how one of your fellow ALTs (a woman) was suddenly let go last year with this same excuse...after working for eight years at a school (and setting up both an international exchange program and creating a full year's worth of English conversation curriculum). It was a pretty big story last year. Similarly, a high school teacher in Sendai (the next prefecture over from Iwate) was suddenly let go in December of last year...also after eight years on the job spent teaching solo, writing syllabus and materials, teaching special koza, leading a club, attending and sometimes chairing meetings. With him as well, there was no warning.... |
This is the kind of thing I was referring to on the other thread, the "glass ceiling" beyond which you can't pass. Contracted workers, especially the foreign ones, are generally seen as dispensable add-ons. Schools are more interested in keeping their wage bill down than retaining and developing good teachers.
| Quote: |
| That said, as I've posted before, workers here have a lot more protection than in many countries overseas (e.g., much better than the US). One example of this is that the longer you are on the job, the harder it becomes to non-renew without cause or to fire you without cause. (They can still do it, but if you challenge them through a union and/or court, the schools will usually pay the equivalent of several months' to one year's salary to make you go away.) |
I don't know whether it works differently in the school system, but there is a law that, if a company has hired you for about 5 consecutive years, you can ask to be made permanent and they HAVE TO oblige. There was a case a few years ago of an instructor at the old NOVA who was denied this, and actually successfully sued NOVA as a result (for Y7m).
That's something to think about, especially given stories of people not being re-hired after eight years. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| Lamarr wrote: |
I don't know whether it works differently in the school system, but there is a law that, if a company has hired you for about 5 consecutive years, you can ask to be made permanent and they HAVE TO oblige. There was a case a few years ago of an instructor at the old NOVA who was denied this, and actually successfully sued NOVA as a result (for Y7m). That's something to think about, especially given stories of people not being re-hired after eight years. |
Lamarr, the law you're talking about came into effect three years ago. Before that law was enacted, there was an unwritten (though with much successful legal precedence) national policy that people in open-ended contracts that had been renewed at least three times had a right to expect continuing renewals--i.e., a de facto tenure, meaning that such people could not be non-renewed without cause.
The new law both codified this practice and reset the employment clock (it's in the law), the latter meaning that people who had satisfied the conditions under the former, unwritten policy were forced to start again at zero. These veterans are now getting let go....
By the way--and slightly off-topic--the Sapporo school board has just left about 60 foreign ALTS without jobs, giving only three days notice:
http://www.generalunion.org/Joomla/index.php/jp/alt/1432-alt-nova-interac#.VyX7LOJagkY.facebook
Finally, again, getting the appropriate menkyo will not stop any of this per se. However, 第2条 and 第３条 of the 教育職員免許法 seem to make it clear that a teacher's license is necessary even for private schools. More to the point, I have seen not having said menkyo used as a reason to terminate popular, skilled, and Japanese-proficient ALTs who had believed (because they'd been told so) that they were valued, permanent members of the teaching faculty. Accordingly, while I would not go storming into the principal's office this Friday demanding (or even asking for) said license, I would accept one if offered...and I might ask a trusted colleague about getting one if the opportunity arises.
My two yen, anyway. |
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kzjohn
Joined: 30 Apr 2014
Posts: 277
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 6:08 am Post subject: |
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[quote="taikibansei"]
| Lamarr wrote: |
...
Lamarr, the law you're talking about came into effect three years ago.
... |
So 2013? Could you clarify--APR 1, JAN 1, etc.?
Some part-timers at my school would be interested.
TIA,
kzjohn |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| kzjohn wrote: |
So 2013? Could you clarify--APR 1, JAN 1, etc.?
Some part-timers at my school would be interested.
TIA,
kzjohn |
April 1, 2013.
Here's a link to a government webpage discussing the law:
http://www.mhlw.go.jp/stf/seisakunitsuite/bunya/koyou_roudou/roudoukijun/keiyaku/kaisei/
There are many other helpful links on that page. Finally, note that for university teachers/researchers (and only them), the wait is not five but ten years.
You're welcome. |
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Lamarr
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
Lamarr, the law you're talking about came into effect three years ago. Before that law was enacted, there was an unwritten (though with much successful legal precedence) national policy that people in open-ended contracts that had been renewed at least three times had a right to expect continuing renewals--i.e., a de facto tenure, meaning that such people could not be non-renewed without cause.
The new law both codified this practice and reset the employment clock (it's in the law), the latter meaning that people who had satisfied the conditions under the former, unwritten policy were forced to start again at zero. These veterans are now getting let go.... |
Right. That's useful to know.
There was a NOVA case from over 10 years ago. The instructor (called Kara Harris: you can find the story if you Google it) had their contract terminated. Just reading her story again, she'd had a dispute with her NOVA manager and made a formal complaint about them, but had also asked for a "contract recognizing her status as a permanent employee" (I think she'd worked at NOVA for 3 or 4 years). I presume that's what you're referring to as "de facto tenure". NOVA asked her to sign a "confession letter", admitting to a list of her "crimes" against the company (as Japanese companies often do). She refused that, so they terminated her contract, then offered her a new contract, in a different location, obviously because she'd lose any permanent employee rights.
She took them to court and successfully sued them, as they couldn't prove any reasonable grounds for dismissal.
That new law you speak of sounds very devious. Wouldn't the previous "unwritten policy" still apply to anyone who'd started employment before the new law came into effect? That's extremely unfair if that's been thrown out of the window. Someone should be taking those cases up (though it might be too late if they've already lost their contracts).
I wonder also if, from now on, schools will be keener to get rid of people before they reach 3 years employment with them. |
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kzjohn
Joined: 30 Apr 2014
Posts: 277
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| @taikibansei -- Thanks! |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Lamarr wrote: |
Wouldn't the previous "unwritten policy" still apply to anyone who'd started employment before the new law came into effect? |
Sadly, no. Here's a link to one exact quote:
申込み...平成２５年４月１日以後に開始した有期労働契約の通算契約期間が５年を超える場合、
[Applying (for permanent status)...Any contract employee who with renewals has exceeded five years employed since April 1, 2013....]
http://www.mhlw.go.jp/seisakunitsuite/bunya/koyou_roudou/roudoukijun/keiyaku/kaisei/dl/h240829-01.pdf
| Lamarr wrote: |
That's extremely unfair if that's been thrown out of the window. |
Yep.
| Lamarr wrote: |
I wonder also if, from now on, schools will be keener to get rid of people before they reach 3 years employment with them. |
A lot of numbers have been thrown out, so let me clarify things. Before the new law, it used to be the unwritten policy that after three renewals (i.e., after the fourth year) one would get the kind of de facto tenure you describe. This law has changed that to four renewals/five years worked total--and nine renewals/ten years worked total for university positions. And yes, I strongly believe that many non-tenured contract employees will be getting the axe just before their positions go permanent. That's partly why I have been advising people here to do everything they can (including getting the proper licensing) to keep their jobs. |
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Lamarr
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
| [Applying (for permanent status)...Any contract employee who with renewals has exceeded five years employed since April 1, 2013....] |
I still wonder whether the previous "unofficial policy" might apply. That's been the accepted standard for years. I find it hard to believe that, if someone didn't have their contract renewed and had been working for more than three, certainly five years, starting prior to when this new law came into effect, and were to take their school to court, they wouldn't find in favour of the employee (as long as there weren't any reasonable grounds for dismissal). Given that, as you point out and as the NOVA case I mentioned shows, there are so many precedents in favour of the employee.
I'm not a lawyer though, let alone a Japanese one, so who knows. If that new law is judged to override everything, I honestly think that's shocking.
It's interesting because, I was working at an eikaiwa back in 2012-2013, and there was a "cull" of longer-term teachers around that time, and I'm wondering whether it was related to this new law coming in. Some people who'd been there 5+ years didn't have their contracts renewed, and one guy was threatened with it unless he did further teacher training (CELTA, MA). |
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marley'sghost
Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 255
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 12:13 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the link to that Sapporo clusterflick. I wouldn't even know where to start commenting on that train wreck, except to say isn't it sad that NOVA is still setting the standards for the bottom of the barrel.
And a question, on the 5 year rule. I was under the impression the 29.5 hour a week gyomu itaku contracts were the loop hole for getting around that, like they formerly were for shakai hoken. Am I wrong? |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| marley'sghost wrote: |
And a question, on the 5 year rule. I was under the impression the 29.5 hour a week gyomu itaku contracts were the loop hole for getting around that, like they formerly were for shakai hoken. Am I wrong? |
As you note, the 29.5-hour-a-week gyomu itaku contracts were to get around the Shakai Hoken obligations. With regards to this new law, as the second link I share makes clear (in multiple places), the count starts from 2013 and there is no weekly hour stipulation. I.e., even part-timers appear to be eligible.
That said, I imagine this will all need to be settled in court at some point. |
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