Job Discussion Forums

[Monday]

I got an offer from a public university. When I looked through the contract, I spotted a line about a 30-day probation period. Students and other teachers will evaluate the foreign teacher and decide if they are fired or can stay on for the rest of the year. This seems quite ridiculous to me. What happens if students just want another teacher who doesn't give homework? And how is it the business of other teachers to decide this? I can understand seeing this in a for-profit language school, but is this common in university contracts?

[Shanghai Noon]

It's common in almost every contract I have ever seen. Don't worry. The other teachers and administration probably don't even know the clause exists.

[rogerwilco]

[In the heat of the moment]

It could be abused, but would you want to stay in a university that does that? For most it's an easy way to drop teachers who either are a few sandwiches short of a picnic or who don't hide it so well

[jimpellow]

I think you are getting caught up in the culture where probationary periods are common in a traditional employer's market.

I have seen and heard of this enough to think that it is not completely terrible to ask this from you, at least from the Chinese perspective.

I think the evaluation from other teachers and students is influenced by contracts for Chinese teachers. You are right, it could be used against you for the wrong reasons.

The Chines labor laws, which also apply to foreign work permit holders, specifically state that the probationary period can only be for one month for each year of a signed contract.

You do hear of employers requiring up to six months and offering a sometimes substantially reduced pay rate. Obviously a red flag in those instances.

I would ask them directly on it and weigh it into your overall decision. I would certainly tell them in the event that you did not take the offer that the probationary period was a factor.

[Monday]

[jimpellow]

Well, looking at your past posts, it appears that you are a well qualified ESL professional who is new to the China scene.

I am thinking that you are experiencing culture shock to how Chinese employers regard employees?

Also, how things should be done, and how Chinese do them, are diametrically opposed pretty much always.

It looks like you were in the Middle East? Having done Saudi, I would agree that students can gang up on teachers. I never found that to be as large an issue in China. I would agree with you that fellow Chinese teachers can be treacherous.

If you are going to survive in China, and not be swallowed by it, then I would suggest standing up for yourself on every point and on every issue that arises. Expect it pretty much every day. China is desperate for teachers, so asking about a sticking point will not harm your chances. In fact, proving value and then carrying an attitude that you have a willingness to walk is very beneficial.

[RiverMystic]

My last two jobs had it. Two months. Reduced pay during that period.

I can relate one horror experience. A couple of days before the probation period ended the business owner turned up (had never met her, she'd never been into the school). She ordered a meeting with me in the office and fired me on the spot. She said they couldn't justify my salary. And yep, there was nothing I could do. The school director, whom I worked with every day, was happy with my performance. She tried to get me reinstated. But I walked. Wasn't hanging around for more dramas.

I only got paid about 65% of the monthly salary, as it was probation. Had spent a heap of money on gym membership, apartment furnishings, relocation costs, air fare. All down the drain. Couldn't take any of my stuff with me.

So, yep, you are at their mercy. But then again, we all are even if there is no probation. What are you going to do if they fire you? Call your lawyer?

[Shanghai Noon]

[rogerwilco]

I have always worked for universities in China, never for language centers or kindergartens.

In university contracts you typically do not see probation periods or a lot of penalties.
Salaries are lower at universities, bu there does seem to be less BS.

I am currently considering working at one of several different universities, and none of the contracts that have been sent to me so far has a probation period or a list of penalties.

The OP being given a contract from a university that has a probation period and a list of many penalties seems unusual to me.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

I live in Canada, and here in British Columbia all jobs have a 90-day probationary period. So I think 30 days is a bit lucky.

[Big Worm]

ive had prohibition, i mean probation on every contract ive had in china for seven years now. not something to be worried about i think. to be honest, they dont know you eithrr, and need a way to gget out of havi g a crazy dude on their staff.

non issue

[Monday]

I just got my third contract with a probationary period. This time, it is for the entire duration of the contract.

[Mixal]

They are quite common, less so at universities from my experience. However, the fact that your students are your verdicts doesn't sound encouraging- perhaps you should contact previous/current teachers.

[jimpellow]